How what could work? How the soul of Arthas was trapped in Frostmourne but somehow is able to beat Ner’zhul in the helm? Do you know the story of the Lich King? I mean even the basics?
Lets look at the Libram of the Dead. What does that say about Frostmourne and Arthas shall we? It says in the second paragraph it says "The Lich King also possessed otherworldly artifacts to achieve his goal. Among them was the demon-forged runeblade Frostmourne. The weapon could consume the souls of its victims, imprisoning their spirits within the blade. It could also remake the living into mindless undead servants. Yet to harness these extraordinary powers, the Lich King required a mortal vessel to weild Frostmourne.
In the young prince Arthas Menethil, he would find such a vessel."
Page 2 the third paragraph says “There, fate led him to Frostmourne. Though Arthas knew the runeblade was cursed, he believed he could use its powers for good. He was wrong. Upon taking up Frostmourne, Arthas succumbed to the Lich King’s iron will. The prince’s sanity unraveled, and the runeblade gorged on his soul.”
So according to the libram, Frostmourne ate his soul, and Arthas was just serving as a mortal vessel for Ner’zhul in time.
There is even a contradiction in the book. In part 10 it talks about after the fight with Illidan he became one with the Lich King, his mind and soul merging with the powerful spectral entity. However his soul was in Frostmourne soooo there is something Blizzard would have to answer. YOU cant just hand wave it away like you have done everything else.
There ARE contradictions and retcons and whatever else. For almost every single thing you can find out there, there is something else that contradicts it. Thats why communication between writers is key, and how you should build off of established stuff and explain things which Blizzard fails to do time and time again.
I honestly stopped reading all these walls of text you type up cause of all the times I had to hear you complain about what we’re talking about. But can you please leave us alone already so we can be able to talk about whatever we’re talking about in peace? We can also talk about how they can work in both gameplay and lore too, all WITHOUT ignoring previous gameplay and lore at all like I believe you’re saying we are doing.
ITT: Kelliste implies the Scourge cannot create soul trapping weapons (despite having an entire army of Death Knights) and that the Frozen Throne has no power outside of being a prison 20 years ago.
Nerzhul is not the Lich King. He has not been the Lich King since Arthas put on the helm.
Yeah, Shadowmourne proved that anyone either still a part of the Scourge or used to be can create a soul stealing weapon. And I believe Ner’zhul’s still in the Helm of Domination honestly, but he’s been rendered dormant in it. If not by Arthas’s hands though, then at least by Bolvar when he became the new Lich King to trap Ner’zhul in the Frozen Throne again. But honestly, I would like to see Ner’zhul aid the players and Bolvar when the Helm of Domination is repaired, even as a minor character.
So what in that quote lead you to that terrible strawman of an answer? Do you not remember your previous post that you just listed off a bunch of stuff as an answer to things that could steal souls. You said his powers which lets be frank here, he barely did anything to know the extent of his powers. The frozen throne was just really a location that was supposed to be a prison for the Lich King so that he couldnt go against the demons yet again. You also mentioned his hammer which is just yet another assumption since we know nothing of it to make any claims about it.
I really dont know how you got “implies the Scourge cannot create soul trapping weapons” from that quote. And Death Knights just used Rune Weapons. Those arent soul trapping weapons. Death Knights technically make any weapon into a rune weapon with the use of a Rune Forge.
Arthas was also just a vessel, a mortal vessel. That was his intended use. It says it right in the Libram of the Dead. Kind of hard to merge with the soul of something that doesnt have a soul anymore to merge with. His soul was in Frostmourne, it gobbled it up like the cookie monster when he picked it up.
Someone had to still be in the helm and the armor. If the 2 merged somehow ignoring the entire problem of Arthas being in Frostmourne, it would still mean they are just merged and in the armor, helm and all. Kil’jaeden bound Ner’zhul to the helm, armor and Frostmourne. So they just lost a mortal vessel to use, it would very much explain the 2 natures of Bolvar as the Lich King. The Lich King didnt really give too many people choices. So on one hand he tells people to leave, and on the other threatens them with death and their corpse becoming part of his mindless army.
I also think that the expansion of Ner’zhuls consciousness is what allowed him to control all of those mindless beings, or that he could use the helm to its fullest potential.
I dont even think the Helm is going to be repaired. Depending on how much of the scourge is left after we fight them in the pre-patch there might not be a need for it anymore. If their numbers are low enough to manage then its just not needed and Bolvar is just going to end up like the burned paladin he has always been.
He’s done a lot. You’d know more if you knew basically anything about necromancy and how it works. As a for instance, you cannot create an undead without binding a soul to it.* Binding a soul requires soultrapping. Bolvar creates undead. He tells Mageyboi that they will be made undead if they fail, and it is entirely their own fault if it happens because they let greed get in the way of common sense.
Baine, Talanji, the player?
“Leave now or stay forever. The choice is yours.”
just saying, nowhere is said that Arthas soul was within the frostmourne
His soul was claimed by the sword, what we have is: his soul was forfeit to the Lich king arthas and his body could not walk and do anything without a soul
incorrect, Ner’zhul was bonded to the helm, the armor were shackles to keep him imprisoned to the frozen throne
thats also incorrect, is canon fact that Ner’zhul soul and Arthas soul merged into the LK, later in his book is showed how Arthas killed/vanquished ner’zhul soul and also killed the rest of his humanity
Then later, metzen also confirmed that ner’zhul is gone:
Yes. Yeah, Ner’zhul is done. He served us well in that capacity, but really the Lich King idea… really is the ultimate expression, you know, as Arthas or whatever. Ner’zhul’s done.
Yeah, most likely, Sylvanas and the Jailer are making him suffer terribly in the Maw. Hope if he appears, he can be an ally, but fully aware he doesn’t deserve redemption at all, even in his broken state. But that’s another story sadly.
Anyway, back on topic, Arthas’s soul WAS in Frostmourne before, but it DID NOT remain in Frostmourne after it was shattered. His soul was released from the sword also when his dad was freed too, but a shade of his soul was left behind. if Kell isn’t remembering that part, damn it all.
Im not going to repeat myself yet again. You are changing what the lore says to look like you are right. The lore is in game for all to read. It states that Frostmourne gorged on his soul. Meaning it ate his soul. Not shade, soul.
funny you to said someone “fail to read” when in the very source you mention is said Arthas and Ner’zhul became one:
With Illidan defeated and his army routed, Arthas took the final step to seal his damnation. He became one with the Lich King, his mind and soul merging with the powerful spectral entity
so yes, their souls did merge into one
Also, you are misunderstanding things, just because Arthas was a “vessel” don’t necessary mean he was empty with no soul, and he wasn’t, since his soul merged to the LK
without a soul the undead would be a mindless zombie, and Arthas wasn’t, Frostmourne took his soul metaphorically
and even if the sword did swallow it, the soul can always get out, its a non issue, Frostmourne devour Saurfang the younger soul and later it was put it in his body back.
Didn’t Arthas effectively banish Ner’Zhul’s presence from the Helm of Domination, along with his “sense of good” which was represented as him as a kid?
It’s been a while since I refreshed myself on Arthas’ lore, and seeing as there’s a pretty big chance we may be encountering Mr. Menethil based on what we know about the Maw holding the most abominable souls that ever were, I honestly should do that sometime later. Maybe I’ll check out a Nobbel video or two.
That was very literally his frozen heart, the last of his humanity. Cut it out and threw it in a pit beneath the citadel after Illidan whacked him around a bit. Spooky ghost kid showed up after we poked it.