But it also is very easy to screw up and get nothing out of. You can’t screw up Obliterate. You can set it up and press the button and insane damage.
You set up BoS and press the button and it’s done in 10 seconds with minimal damage. Press the wrong button and 10 seconds goes down to 6 with even less damage.
Well now I have to guess which one good secondary you’re talking about: It could be either Haste or Versatility. Unless you don’t like Versatility.
You want Obliterate always deal Frost Damage? Interesting.
Also kind of defeats the purpose of Frost Strike and Obliterate being different but at the same time it kind of already is defeated with the introduction of KM58. And there would be no ability that Mastery doesn’t scale for Frost with the exception of Slappy Hands and Death and Decay. That would make Mastery too good.
I could see them go “Screw it” and make Frostreaper make Obliterate deal pure Frost damage.
Bro, I just said make Frostreaper a choice node between Physical Obliterate with damage increase and Frost Obliterate. I am not advocating to remove anything.
If people want to make Phys Build from Frost, let them.
Gee I wonder why Frost got a significant nerfs in October 2020 with Pillar duration reduced from 15s to 12s along with 45 seconds to 1 minute, along with Obliterate damage decreased just because of how crazy hard we would hit with Obliterate with all these bonkers scaling and Frostscythe got a short end of the stick from all of this along with removing Icy Citadel with the return of 2H. (OH and it went from 35% to 30% too!)
All of those rubbish really doesn’t matter if people want Obliterate to deal physical. That’s the whole point of talent trees.
hello dad.
There isnt any risk any ore woth BoS in raid, you get RI from avalanche so you can ditch that and run the rp generating runeforge and fc, you also get double erw for rp regen etc. There is a reason on most fights in raid you have 100% uptime of BoS with minimal effort. There isnt any risk and only reward now
So if I’m using BoS properly I won’t gain any of those benefits that buff obliterate? Just about everything you listed there is also taken advantage of by breath builds. Now breath builds are lasting for entire pulls, the balance is off.
There is risk still. Its called messing up and it hurts way more to mess up with BoS. Or are all frost players robots that never mess up?
Not at all what I said. But keep moving the goal post.
Your failsafe is 2nd charge of erw. You generate so much rp from oblits, the runeforge etc its nigh impossible to starve yourself and kill your BoS unless you running to kenya from the boss to screw up.
2 stacks of erw gives you 1 extra use over any fight.
There is still messing up.
No, if you actually played the game atm you would understand BoS is basically fool proof atm. Its never been easier to play or maintain BoS than this expansion. Legit next to 0 risk
What are you saying no to? That ERW only gives you 1 extra use over an entire fight or that people being humans dont mess up?
Do you really? Obliterate does not interact with Haste whatsoever. So…
Not really. Frost Strike is an RP spender that we only use in ST. It doesn’t fulfill any particular purpose outside of that. Obliterate is a double rune strike that we need to use to proc Rime, cleaves with DnD and is tied directly into Obliteration. We literally don’t function without Obliterate. The same cannot be said about Frost Strike.
Also, Mastery already scales with Obliterate. The only time it doesn’t apply would be when Oblit is used without KM procs, which is largely negligible since the vast majority of 2H’s damage is in Pillar windows where you’re guaranteed Killing Machines. It would be very slightly better than it is now.
That accomplishes literally nothing other than normalizing Oblit damage. You lose the obnoxious difference, but you lose all scaling and are now penalized by armor. So instead of going from 25k-100k, you go from 40k-80k. Whoopdee f-ing do. I get where you’re coming from but its a waste of time to implement something like that. The base damage can be adjusted to account for doing more damage without KM procs. I don’t know about you, but my Obliterate crit average is around 80% over the course of a fight.
I wonder if it has anything to do with our ridiculous amount of flat % modifiers that stack and result in the majority of our damage being done during Pillar windows. No wait, that can’t be it!
Haste reduces GCD. In turn, more globals to fit in Pillar as well as reducing CD of each runes. If you reduce the CD of each runes and the more globals you put into Obliterate during Pillar, the more strength you accrue during it.
Obliterate doesn’t directly scale with Haste but scales everything around supporting it.
Frost Strike is also our only RP spender if you don’t allocate into Glacial Advance and/or BoS that scales with Mastery. I remember I used Death Coil a couple of times due to how desperate I once was trying to get runes out of RE and feed BoS/GS.
Hey, I’m on board the idea of making Death Coil Shadowfrost for Frost to have a place in it. It’s also an idea outside of the box.
And there are odd times I use Obliterate without KM procs (It is normally advised not to do this as a 2-Hander) to well… kind of referencing before… Feeding BoS/GS.
Look man, I like Frostreaper. It makes the spec more cohesive regardless of weapon choices. Without it, DW would remain Masterfrost and 2H would remain Physical Damage focused. Physical Damage is mitigated by armor, I am aware of it. But at the same time, I recall people were proud of obliterating casters because it did Physical.
To me, I don’t think dealing Physical Damage is a detriment because there has got to be a difference between it and other magical/elemental damage types right?? (HINT: I’m probably coping lol)
But this change is to compromise for those who unironically think Frostreaper is bad for the spec. Otherwise I don’t think I’ll hear the end of Kelliste, Grizzle or Gorkroth (maybe Gorkroth) thinking a lot of modifiers around KM like Frostreaper, MotFW, or WHATEVER revolves around it is a bad design for the spec.
If people want Obliterate to remain Physical, just let them. Plus I don’t think swapping nodes around (Imp. Rime) and making more interesting choice nodes is a “waste of time”. Who the f knows, maybe Physical MIGHT pop off. (I’m probably STILL coping 
)
And speaking of modifiers…
Let’s see, they’ve brought back MotFW, KM58 and I think there was a perk in SL that increases your Obliterate Damage by 10%. I think base Pillar Strength Value was also raised from 15% to 25%. Before Oct 2020 nerfs with Obliterate was doing 88%/60%.
It probably was ridiculous amount of flat % modifiers but at the same time… You have to remember that they removed Icy Citadel. One of the very crucial passives that made Icecap competitive enough to be an alternative to BoS (NOTICE: I’m not saying it’s better but it’s playable enough to be an alternative).
After the nerf, Obliterate did 66.2%/44.73% throughout Shadowlands. That’s almost 2/3 of its damage. All that to balance out with the introduction of KM58 and inflating strength value for Pillar of Frost.
… and thank freaking goodness Obliterate Damage got reverted back to somewhere NEARLY as closed to Pre-Oct 2020 nerfs because relatively powerhouse speaking, we are all pretty powerful. Some classes need love (Hunters with Double Disengage), some classes don’t (Probably Arcane Mages and Warriors).
ALL OF THAT really hurt Frostscythe’s viability and look at what it is now. 
I miss 8.3 Frost.
Thats wrong. Masterfrost was a build and everyone is probably thankful that its dead. Replacing Obliterate with Howling Blast was boring and bad design as well.
The 20-100k vs 40-80k is also not the complete picture. The 20-100k should be 20-40-100k the 40k being the outcome of regular crits without KM. But on the other side it would still just be 40-80k without Frostreaper. You are raising the basline up to where Obliterate would crit baseline as just its flat damage.
Not everything has to scale with mastery. People just have some unhealthy infatuation with Obliterate and its leading to a boring spec. Also thinking everything has to scale with mastery is bad too, if everything scales with it just remove it and create something more interesting.
DW Obliterate damage is a little higher than 2h without MotFW. 87.6% of ap vs 59.1+ 29.5 = 88.65. So its 1% higher which is basically equal.
The only reason why Obliterate would have been reverted is because other stuff has been buffed as well. Its not making the 60-70% overall damage that it was prior to its nerf, so realistically there was no revert at the end of the day.
Honestly I think at this point its better for us to just agree to disagree. We aren’t really finding any common ground.
Fair enough.
It was an interesting conversation though and I completely get your point of view!
Theses… or was it Thesii?
Turn frostscythe into a passive. KM now makes your obliterate hit up to 8 nearby enemies.
Problem solved /sarcasm
Didn’t that actually happen though in MoP/WoD somewhere?
I remember the PvPers going ballistic over it or something.
Frostscythe seems more like an AoE RP spender. Remove the KM aspect from it, and increase base damage to overtake FS at 3+targets.
That’s Glacial Advance.
It’s a builder that uses Runes. So it directly competes with Obliterate. And thanks to Cleaving Sreikes, loses our completely