Ahh, yes. The “I know you are, but what am I” Covlol special.
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Vs the “make things up and pretend they happened” Seratox special?
Like what?
Definitely the case when we could spam the hasted version. Once that proc was tied to our healing CDs it become much less effective to use Living Flame as an unbuffed hard-cast. It would still aid in your defense but I don’t think we were living through actual burst by just standing there and spamming it on ourselves. Absolutely when combined with one of our CDs it could save us from a reasonably high amount of burst, and it could allow us to escape to safety in situations we might otherwise die, and then allow us to top ourselves off.
Like I said, in a vacuum it was overpowered for a hybrid, even after the original nerf, but we didn’t (and don’t) have much else going for us. I’d be chuffed with more utility instead of restoring some of our healing, but I just want something done. Even something like having Ancient Flame reduce the mana cost to 0, so we could oom ourselves if we tried to act like a full off-healer, spamming unbuffed heals, but we would have one LF per healing CD so we’re not running dry just by using our rotation and trying to make use of the feedback loop between those spells, that buff, and Scarlet Adaptation.
afaik living flame and disintegrate are on different schools and both being absolutely insane just feels really awkward
They are on different schools, yes. I think the actual school-related issue is that our spammable heal and healing CDs are on different schools. Given our excessive vulnerability to interrupts I don’t see it as problematic that we have more schools to work with than other casters in general, but locking out a heal and not actually locking out our ability to heal feels pretty troll.
curious about this
i don’t play evoker and haven’t played evoker but i’ve played basically everything else in this game
what makes evoker so much more fragile than everything else when 2 charges of wall exist and renewing blaze is just short of being a fullstop on basically any amount of damage imaginable?
i don’t either in most situations
but if the situation is that disintegrate requires a reasonable amount of care and living flame does an exceptional amount of healing at a very low cost then you walk away from every exchange in an extremely positive position atleast imo
yea that’s true
There have been numerous examples, the latest is pretending Murphy has defended the current state of Boomkin.
Aight, good talk bro. Have a good one.
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The devs fell asleep watching the MDI with its exact same comp for every team and missed the upload today 
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arena is unplayable, it only has bommy and sprist. this meta will kill the game forever.
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Does anyone ever enjoy watching MDI? I’ve tried before but it wasnt long before I just turned it off.
IMO, its mostly its range. It has less defensive stay than a warlock or shadow priest for example but also cant start a fight from 40 yards, kite to 40 yards and doesnt have the cc necessary to control a close range fight.
At first it had the damage output to be managable, but it was bad design because of how its mastery works. Its still garbage mastery and they should eat it and rework it completely.
In my mind, i see dev as playing more like ret pally and everyone keeps calling aug prot pally, so this sort of fits into that thought process.
So if dev stays with mid range, no problem, but it needs more staying power, either in the form of more cc to control a fight, or sustain to live through the damage they will inevitably take because they dont really have a way to not take the damage.
the only class that really has a similar issue is elemental shaman. It at least has normal range but otherwise has all of the same sort of issues. Totems give them more control but they have less staying power since they dont have much by way of defenses.
idk how tf people watch MDI
its better watching a hamster run a wheel for hours on end and atleast at the end of the day you get some enjoyment knowing the hamster felt good running it
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but how is that any different than specs like feral or enhancement that functionally have worse range and worse defensives
I think people are still stuck in the classic through wrath mentality where being a caster meant you actually got crushed when someone closed a gap, a dynamic that was caused when Stamina wasn’t normalized across gear types. I think that mentality has just carried on even though it doesn’t really apply anymore
Its not, and people have made the exact same complaints about those classes too.
I think enhance defensively might be in a good spot now with the burrow thing but the main complaint is typically that they have to choose to use MSW on damage, creating pressure, or heal themselves and lose pressure.
Ferals are complaining about how bad regrowth is right now and how squishy ferals are.
If both of those classes had major damage nerfs they would have the exact same issue as dev.
By no means is this a devoker only issue. just saying that this is one of the issues devoker has.
When I say we don’t have much else going for us I’m referring to our combined defenses and utility. I don’t necessarily think we are excessively fragile in a direct sense. We do have one of the higher rates of being blooded, but that’s to be expected and not an issue. I agree that double wall and Renewing Blaze is an incredibly solid defensive core.
I’m more referring to the fact that outside of our off-healing our utility is Sleep Walk, Cauterize, Rescue, and our racials (both of which are on insane CDs and one of which is low-impact besides). Landslide and Deep Breath both have utility but are kind of tied together because of how impossible landing a not terrible Deep Breath would be without it, and then the package is kind of tied to being our go button. They are, combined, kind of like Leg Sweep for WW. A stronger version to be sure, but they occupy a similar space within our kit.
Our PvP talents are also generally locked two deep on effects which simply enable essential functions. Without Unburdened Flight we would have effectively zero ability to kite, and then most devokers are taking one of either Obsidian Mettle or Nullifying Shroud (if not both, which is kind of the “Starter Devastation Kit”), and those both generally serve the same purpose of compensating for how vulnerable we are with our range and primary spell being a channel. So after that you get to add one truly utility effect to your kit.
Other classes just have more. In my experience and to my knowledge, at least. I only have the three capped alts. Maybe DH has similar/less? This specific issue has been a pretty common complaint among the diehard devoker players since beta so far as I know. We used to have our healing to fill a lot of the deficit, but now we don’t.
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1 more hour or we cry
We’ll do that regardless. 
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Meh, I decided this evening to just stop playing all together until the last month of the season to abuse when inflation will be the highest/my best shot at facing the type of players I’d normally be competing for rating against in a healthy season to maybe get my weapon enchant.
I’m pretty annoyed with High Winds myself, but the game in general is just too complex and full of things that suck for me to have realistic expectations of being much higher than I am right now without somehow being a better player than people who play 5x more than I do. Just gonna DPS M+ for a while, good luck with Sub, Balance, Augmentation, etc. lol
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