197 iLevel Cap Casual PVP

[Daark-cenarius]

The design decisions span the entire game. PvP is not and should not be a sandbox or lobby mode.

[Liselitha-eldrethalas]

@Daark-cenarius

TBC and Wrath both required ranked arena play to unlock current season sets.

Yes they did. But those getting the conquest from doing their daily random battlegrounds the weekly Wintergrasp could buy specific pieces of conquest gear without arena rating and still be competitive in Bg’s and not get stomped on by someone wearing a full set of conquest gear.

Then at the start of a new season, the previous season’s conquest gear became the new season’s honor gear and everyone was able to start the new season at the same ilvl and build up from there.

[Battlemaster-stormrage]

But the pvp was good without rating

Current pvp is not good with ratings the way they are

There are a lot of fixes that could be implemented to reach a middle ground where the genX’ers of bc and the newer crowd of mop+ can all enjoy random battlegrounds

What blizz is currently doing isnt it

[Daark-cenarius]

@Battlemaster-stormrage

But the pvp was good without rating

Debatable. Afking ashran or joining “all horde no alliance stomp” ashran to gear in a weekend is not pvp.

@Battlemaster-stormrage

Current pvp is not good with ratings the way they are

Agreed.

@Battlemaster-stormrage

There are a lot of fixes that could be implemented to reach a middle ground

Also agreed.

@Battlemaster-stormrage

where the genX’ers of bc

I think we are still technically millenials.

[Battlemaster-stormrage]

@Daark-cenarius

I think we are still technically millenials.

Haha yes my bad, I didn’t want to say boomer because thats rude, and millenial would have included me in it although I guess i’m borderline gen Z unfortunately

[Liselitha-eldrethalas]

@Daark-cenarius

Debatable. Afking ashran or joining “all horde no alliance stomp” ashran to gear in a weekend is not pvp.

I don’t think anyone is going to argue in defense of this point unless they’re the one doing the afk’s. Because you’re right. That isn’t PvP. And I think Battle master would agree with that.

[Kegeo-drenden]

@Liselitha-eldrethalas

That’s what the report/kick player button is for. No one likes an afker or someone just dropping from the group in the middle of a BG, random or rated. That’s just rude playing.

To play devil’s advocate, this can become a problem when you have enough AFKers in a game that you can’t even reach the critical mass required for a report or a kick to go through. I ran into quite a few games like this, back when BG AFKing was more of a thing…

There does need to be a more even playing field, but giving people an avenue to AFK for gear, and thus ruin the fun of people actually present to PvP, just isn’t it.

[Maldoren-alleria]

@Snozy-stormrage

False. The people that put effort into their character would lose.

If you want even geared pvp go do rate me BGs and stop being anti social.

Not false at all. You would still have the top gear in that content. Sounds to me like you just want to be able to crush people who can’t fight back. So if you’re the only type of player who loses, that is a victory for everyone to an even greater extent than I imagined.

Rated is nothing like unrated. It requires a completely different mentality and playstyle, picking meta options instead of fun options, spending your time forming a group, hoping the people you play with also get picked in the same group, etc.

Rated pvp should not be required to be optimal in unrated pvp. This is a simple fact. Anything else is bad game design.

[Liselitha-eldrethalas]

Hence why the old ranking style should be a thing. You can have all of the conquest in the world and you are not going to get those shoulders without a 2200+ rating. And idk many rated groups that would tolerate a player going afk in a match.

[Snozy-stormrage]

@Maldoren-alleria

Not false at all. You would still have the top gear in that content. Sounds to me like you just want to be able to crush people who can’t fight back. So if you’re the only type of player who loses, that is a victory for everyone to an even greater extent than I imagined.

People being restricted for playing the game so people who don’t want to put effort in is a bad design and would cause a lot of people to quit.

@Maldoren-alleria

Rated is nothing like unrated. It requires a completely different mentality and playstyle, picking meta options instead of fun options, spending your time forming a group, hoping the people you play with also get picked in the same group, etc.

If you want “fair” pvp then rated is where you go.

Unrated is a free for all for anyone.

[Maldoren-alleria]

@Snozy-stormrage

People being restricted for playing the game so people who don’t want to put effort in is a bad design and would cause a lot of people to quit.

Has nothing to do with “effort” and everything to do with “what do I enjoy”. Unrated pvp should not require rated pvp gear. I’m sorry you can’t handle simple facts.

@Snozy-stormrage

Unrated is a free for all for anyone.

And, just like literally every other form of content in the game, it should supply the gear you need for that content. Unlike literally every other form of content in the game, it does not. 200 is not sufficient. I’m advocating for unrated pvp to be treated like every other form of content.

It wouldn’t hurt you at all if you couldn’t stomp on people because you have gear they can’t get. I don’t care about your ego. I care about well-designed content catering to the players who want to do that content. Just like literally every other form of content in the game.

[Mslulz-bigglesworth]

Not sure if you play many BGs, but people definitely get kicked for afk all the time.

[Daark-cenarius]

@Maldoren-alleria

And, just like literally every other form of content in the game

This is a weird take.

@Maldoren-alleria

I’m advocating for unrated pvp to be treated like every other form of content.

It is. A M+5 rewards lower ilvl than a M+10, because the 10 is harder. Normal raid rewards lower ilvl than Heroic.

Unorganized pvp rewards lower ilvl than ranked.

@Mslulz-bigglesworth

Not sure if you play many BGs, but people definitely get kicked for afk all the time.

It’s true. Someone tried to get me kicked the other day for being “afk at mine.” While I was the only one defending. And in combat with a rogue and hunter. 30 seconds after I called “inc mines.”

@Kegeo-drenden

this can become a problem when you have enough AFKers in a game that you can’t even reach the critical mass required for a report or a kick to go through

This.

[Liselitha-eldrethalas]

@Snozy-stormrage

People being restricted for playing the game so people who don’t want to put effort in is a bad design and would cause a lot of people to quit.

And there we go. Back to the bad faith arguments. Listen, no one is arguing that people who don’t do rateds should get rated gear. I don’t necessarily agree with the op’s solution to the gear level disparity, but I do recognize that there is an issue in being able to curb stomp a fresh 60 in 158 honor gear in a random BG. That’s not fun for me. Being able to farm the gy isn’t fun for me anymore than it is for those being farmed.

[Maldoren-alleria]

Fortunately for me, and the people with fragile self-esteem on these threads who defend this garbage game design, my sub runs out in two days. First time I’ve clicked “unsubscribe” with a smile on my face. I left as much feedback as the box allowed explaining that their pvp gearing design is complete garbage for unrated pvpers (as is their decision to add timers to Torghast, but that’s a different topic).

When they fix unrated pvp so that unrated pvpers can enjoy it (what a novel concept!), I will return. Until then, let pvp rot with all these players who can’t handle the idea of not stomping others due to insurmountable gear advantage. They deserve each other.

[Supercracka-sargeras]

@Edgyjojomeme-nathrezim

but most people and devs belive that if you put effort into getting good gear

Translation - You were able to buy carries for gear unlike the plebs.

Gah you people I swear. ENjoy you tiny player base and echo chamber.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

@Battlemaster-stormrage

I was thinking honor gear 197 base, scale 213, and conquest gear 213 base scaling to 226 would be fair if we’re not taking the pvp gear for pve argument into consideration

My worry with this is there is still a category below 197. So there’s still 150-226? That’s still an insane gear gap between newbies and people who start late. Now not being rating locked would go a long way but still… If we don’t want the game to die, we need new/returning players.

150-220 is still redic I guess… Could be even lower honestly.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

@Kegeo-drenden

I ran into quite a few games like this, back when BG AFKing was more of a thing…

This also won’t magically become a thing again I assure you. Blizzard won a big lawsuit against the company responsible. You know kick Botting was also super common at that time too right? It doesn’t exist anymore. Blizzard has legal precedent and better detection now.

Do you honestly think with the insane honor grind that people wouldn’t be Botting right now? Or how about kick Botting to climb the ladder.

This would not magically become a thing again I assure you. + Even if it somehow came back. I’d take it over the rampant boosting going on which is just as toxic for the game.

[Battlemaster-stormrage]

Honor gear is fairly easy to get though, but yeah i get that. Like someone said earlier being able to buy honor gear before 60 would go a very long way as well instead of being capped at 15k, and having renown lock current honor gear is also silly once we’re past midway season

Idk there are so many issues that its like where do we start

[Snozy-stormrage]

@Maldoren-alleria

Has nothing to do with “effort” and everything to do with “what do I enjoy”. Unrated pvp should not require rated pvp gear. I’m sorry you can’t handle simple facts.

I’m sorry but that’s not how MMORPG‘s work sorry you don’t like facts.

@Maldoren-alleria

And, just like literally every other form of content in the game, it should supply the gear you need for that content. Unlike literally every other form of content in the game, it does not. 200 is not sufficient. I’m advocating for unrated pvp to be treated like every other form of content.

Unrated PVP to rated PVP is the same as heroic Dungeons to mythic dungeons. It’s a stepping stone.