197 iLevel Cap Casual PVP

A big point that people are bringing up here is about working for the gear, which is a fair point. This is an MMO and making your character feel powerful over the course of your playing is an essential part of that. But another big part is working for the WIN.

The gaming industry is mature, and certain design philosophies need to be addressed to accommodate for the times and direction gaming culture has taken. Esports is the flavor of the the industry, and WoW does much to bolster itself as a competitive sport. This is no secret with Blizzard-hosted tournaments for M+ races and of course the AWC tournaments ever season. But WoW can’t even begin to boast its competitive status BECAUSE

Inherent advantage is a big problem in a game that wants to be “competitive”. League of Legends begins games with all players at level 1 and no inventory. Counterstrike begins all games with equal budget and side swapping at intermission. StarCraft starts all players with equal resources. All of these games, even if you don’t play or like them, are cultural pinnacles of Esports because of their fairness and worthiness to be deemed competitive. Advantage in these games is earned through the passage of time in the game and through player behavior/decision making. In LoL, a successful Jungler ambush on the enemy ADC can give your team’s ADC a strong early lead, snowballing from that strategic attack. In Counterstrike, someone can defy the odds and win a 3v1 in a focused stream of shooting developed through practice, forcing those killed to lose their weapons in the next round. In StarCraft, a Protoss player can warp zealots and attack the enemy’s Zerg drones to secure an early economic advantage. The only advantage that you can have in those games is the advantage you create in the context of that isolated match. Both teams have equal opportunity to create that advantage for themselves.

These types of game-evolving plays exists in WoW but are overshadowed by gear disparity, lessening the significance of tactical decision making. This is the whole problem. Tactical decision making and player ability should be the ONLY deciding factor in a competitive setting! How would one ever hope to step into Diamond league in LoL if Diamond players started the game with with an additional 2000 gold? How would you leave Silver league in CS:GO if everyone ranked above you started with kevlar, a helmet, and an AK-47 during the pistol round? You get what I mean.

Having better gear significantly increases your odds of winning against another player with lesser gear. There is no debate about this. But I say to you, that even if all players’ gear became homogenized, those same players that did the work to get the highest rank and thus highest gear would remain at the top of the ranks. The players that have done the work to obtain their better gear would still retain their knowledge and experience to win most of the time against lesser skilled players on a level playing field. In this sense the competition is much more meaningful because a loss is derived entirely from your mistakes without the gear variable. The only difference is, without the inherent advantage, you lose the wins that your gear crutch gave you. This obviously upsets people who are in the higher ranks. I mentioned working for the win at the beginning of my post. It is as simple as this. The more gear you obtain, the less you have to work for the win. But that is what we should strive to do, is to be better players but in a FAIR context.

If the problem is the rewarding factor of putting in the work to climb the ranks, there are other solutions to that. You can provide players with things that isn’t gear to make it worth it. Take a look at any other successful competitive game with a no inherent advantage system.

Legion had templates, and BfA had PvP scaling. However, I don’t think they did it correctly.

Personal idea time:
Players could be given a standard health pool and 2000 points of secondary stats to allocate freely before the gates open in a PvP instance. A limit of 30% vers perhaps and other appropriate caps on the other stats. You can save a stat allocation profile and have it auto-select if you desire. This way, players still have equal opportunity but also can customize their character the same way obtaining gear would.


TLDR: I enjoy WoW, but I don’t take WoW seriously as a competitive game in its current state, and neither should you.

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I feel those who earned it should have an advantage, but not this big.

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But what if I like going in and wrecking a bunch of fresh 60’s with 155 gear? :man_shrugging:

He’s saying the exact opposite. He’s not demanding to be given elite PvP gear, but to scale down casual content to casual ilvls.

Demanding to get into a Mythic raid in 180ilvl would be ridiculous as well, but nobody is saying that.

Scaling casual unrated PvP to an ilvl cap makes perfect sense. Want to flex your gear you paid so much gold for in carries? Go join RBGs or do arenas. Nobody is impressed by you pressing your Wings/Divine Toll one shot macro and deleting someone.

Unless those players are worried that capping everyone on the same ilvl means they have to outplay them instead of outgear them. Lord forbid.

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Then keep doing it because this isn’t gonna change. :wink: :muscle:

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it was high at the start of the season and now its a dead town, except for the boosters/boosted

I think it’s an important question to ask why Blizzard expects players to deal with unfun things before they can get to the ‘fun’ part.

Why would I bother playing PvP and going through the grind just so I can, after a while, finally be even gear wise with my opponent and actually expect a reasonable (aka, if I lose it’s because they were without a doubt better than me) when there are so many other games that DON’T have that?

Why bother with Blizz’s ‘you have to wait before you can enjoy it’ when I can go immediately have fun with a different game?

It seems like Blizz expects people to be there during the start of the season, and this is definitely less of an issue then, but it doesn’t seem wise to basically punish someone for not being there when the season started. And imagine trying to gear an alt, goodness.

Surely there’s a solution to be found in there somewhere. I keep seeing a bunch of people who have almost double my health and at that point
there is no point.

So a 226 geared player, who also started from ground zero just like everyone else did, should no longer have access to a BG that everyone had the same opportunity to play? Even though he too at one point was lowly geared and played unrated BGs?

That’s not what she said at all lmao

Is a wonderful cycle. I go in wide eyed, full of wonder and adventure on my fresh shiny 60 rogue in questing greens only to have a 220+ rogue teach me what is possible if I work hard and get gear.

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Quote where anyone says that.

They have the exact same access as everyone else. They just won’t be bringing a gun to a knife fight. They’re more than welcome to come to the fight.

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I see up to an item level cap

You missed a word.

You’re telling the higher geared players to go away because they have better gear

So you don’t want unrated bgs to provide access to gear above 197 then?

I think this phenomenon where people blatantly can’t read is actually contangious. ^^^^

Holy heck.

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No, I said to do so if:

Want your 226 gear to be 226? Do rated content. The same content you did to get it in the first place. Who raids Mythic and gets ilvl 230+ and then goes and smashes LFR? I mean, at least that’s not hurting anyone else’s fun really, but it does seem silly. Just me though.

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Do they currently? That would be an adequate solution as well, but you currently can’t upgrade beyond that with honor.

The entire point is to even the playing field so people are performing based on ability instead of gear.

They aren’t as common but recently I DID have a highly geared DH come into an LFR wing just to flex his big numbers and trash talk everyone else. He was removed so fast it wasn’t even funny.

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People who need to catch up renown
People who want more anima

Some examples

There’s a difference between someone well geared and mining their own business vs someone who purposely trash talks people

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