1.12 AV is a huge, huge mistake

Brokenwind-malganis · May 28, 2019, 1:09am

Show of hands: who all in here are contributors/supporters of the Wall of No?

Goodjuju-area-52 · May 28, 2019, 3:45am

That’s the problem, 1.12 is AV for people who hate AV in any form.

Brokenwind-malganis · May 28, 2019, 3:57am

Nailed it

Afflextion-thaurissan · May 28, 2019, 4:01am

I didn’t play until the very end of Vanilla, but i remember long AV’s all through TBC. I remember playing from breakfast to dinner, 12+hours. With no reinforcements you have to kill the boss, so as soon as 1 team turtles or back caps it’s a long game.

Shiromar-malganis · May 28, 2019, 2:11pm

FYI, nostalrius is the only pserver that used 1.5 AV.

What we see on northdale is AV 1.12 is largely ignored due to not being optimal for ranking unless it’s a AV weekend even then turtles are avoided because of honor decay. You can’t keep killing the same people and getting same amount of honor.

With 1.5 AV you can quest and get your honor or PvP and get your honor.

With a Zerg AV 1.12 you won’t have time to get your quests done. Even with a Zerg AB is better for honor gains.

Prufinnor-wyrmrest-accord · May 30, 2019, 4:31pm

And in fairness it was their interpretation of 1.5. We should be pushing for the lost BG elements rather than patch numbers.

Prufinnor-wyrmrest-accord · May 31, 2019, 3:00pm

See, this guy right here, he gets it.

Hathosse-moknathal · June 2, 2019, 9:30am

Given the great work that the Classic team has done so far, I’d trust them with bringing back elements of past AV’s to make an AV that combines the best parts of each version.

Hruuken-bleeding-hollow · June 2, 2019, 9:41am

So I’ll dip my toes in the thread. Never got the chance to experience the “days long” AV’s that I’ve seen everyone talking about and I would like to, but it seems like if you start taking bits and pieces of different patches that you like and choosing those it doesn’t end there and before long everyone is going to have their own opinions on which iteration of vanilla that they liked the best. Probably best just to stick with one patch and call it a day.

Masoschism-bloodscalp · June 2, 2019, 9:46am

I’m sure this has been said in this >1000 post thread, but this statement is completely and utterly untrue in all ways and forms. 1.12 AV was so far removed from the current version is ridiculous. There were no reinforcements. Games often lasted many hours. The Gods were summoned at least half the time. It wasn’t the best version, but it wasn’t the worst either.

I certainly don’t want 1.5. I’d much prefer 1.8. More PvP, less PvE, but still long healthy games.

Masoschism-bloodscalp · June 2, 2019, 10:09am

Not in this case. “Which AV” is a very important thing to consider as it changed so much, and changed how people played the game by a lot. For me personally, I could spend an entire month doing nothing but AV (preferably not the same AV).

I think a poll would do the trick, though most people don’t really know the difference. Maybe a few weeks each of the different Vanilla versions and THEN a poll to find consensus.

Ziryus-doomhammer · June 2, 2019, 10:24am

The thing is 1.11 AV -2.0 AV existed longer in vanilla than 1.5 - 1.8 AV. so 1.11 is far more likely to be the actual authentic version for them. Especially when you consider than 1.11 AV existed basically unchanged until reinforcements were added.

Masoschism-bloodscalp · June 2, 2019, 10:32am

Any suggestion that there is a “more Vanilla” version than any other is completely irrelevant. ALL were part of the Vanilla experience, but only ONE has consensus as to being the best version. What that consensus is is unknown, but not unknowable. A test run of a few weeks for each of the major versions 1.5, 1.8, 1.11 and then a poll can find that consensus.

Classic is a community game. I would love for potential changes in Classic to be by democracy, with testing and discussions to create the “perfect” Vanilla experience. Of course that can never really exist, but we can capture its spirit, “warts and all,” maybe without some of its warts.

Ziryus-doomhammer · June 2, 2019, 10:53am

Masoschism:

Ziryus:

The thing is 1.11 AV -2.0 AV existed longer in vanilla than 1.5 - 1.8 AV. so 1.11 is far more likely to be the actual authentic version for them. Especially when you consider than 1.11 AV existed basically unchanged until reinforcements were added.

Any suggestion that there is a “more Vanilla” version than any other is completely irrelevant. ALL were part of the Vanilla experience, but only ONE has consensus as to being the best version. What that consensus is is unknown, but not unknowable. A test run of a few weeks for each of the major versions 1.5, 1.8, 1.11 and then a poll can find that consensus.

Classic is a community game. I would love for potential changes in Classic to be by democracy, with testing and discussions to create the “perfect” Vanilla experience. Of course that can never really exist, but we can capture its spirit, “warts and all,” maybe without some of its warts.

If they’re going to go that route why not just offer multiple versions of AV indefinitely, as a museum piece that makes sense. If one version happens to bubble to the top as the best version well…

I strongly suspect that the people pushing for early versions of AV know it wasn’t nearly as popular and know why.

Prufinnor-wyrmrest-accord · June 2, 2019, 12:10pm

A good game designer with common sense will be able to properly choose what is the best balance of challenge/enjoyment/engagement.

If I were looking for a DM to run a D&D campaign, someone of the mindset of Ion is the laaaaast type of person I would seek out. Give me a Kern or Jordon.

We as players gave tons of feedback over the past 15 years concerning game elements like AV. We gave details, justifications, analytical breakdowns, polls, etc. Our DM ignored it all, and chose what gave himself “clarity”, rather than gameplay of those who he was running the campaign for. We have a horrible DM.

Prufinnor-wyrmrest-accord · June 2, 2019, 12:13pm

Claims ridiculous far removed differences.
Only mentions reinforcements.

Prufinnor-wyrmrest-accord · June 2, 2019, 12:18pm

I strongly suspect that you are still ignoring the fact that participation != enjoyment. Various reasons why early AV did not have as much participation as AB and WSG have also gone ignored by you.

Ziryus-doomhammer · June 2, 2019, 12:18pm

Prufinnor:

Hruuken:

So I’ll dip my toes in the thread. Never got the chance to experience the “days long” AV’s that I’ve seen everyone talking about and I would like to, but it seems like if you start taking bits and pieces of different patches that you like and choosing those it doesn’t end there and before long everyone is going to have their own opinions on which iteration of vanilla that they liked the best. Probably best just to stick with one patch and call it a day.

A good game designer with common sense will be able to properly choose what is the best balance of challenge/enjoyment/engagement.

If I were looking for a DM to run a D&D campaign, someone of the mindset of Ion is the laaaaast type of person I would seek out. Give me a Kern or Jordon.

We as players gave tons of feedback over the past 15 years concerning game elements like AV. We gave details, justifications, analytical breakdowns, polls, etc. Our DM ignored it all, and chose what gave himself “clarity”, rather than gameplay of those who he was running the campaign for. We have a horrible DM.

The current heads of WoW are not the same people who chose to change AV in the first place. AV was changed during vanilla by its creators because the original just wasn’t very good.

Valdro-steamwheedle-cartel · June 2, 2019, 12:20pm

Ziryus-doomhammer · June 2, 2019, 12:21pm

/shrug and reasons why AV was changed in the first place are ignored by you.