Reposting since you keep ignoring it, and prefer to just call the bulk of the playerbase “lazy”, rather than acknowledging the glaring design flaw.
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/shrug you claim that it’s conditioning not an actual fact of game design I disagree. Yet for some reason AV existed from 1.11 to 2.3 without zerging being the goto strat, so yeah I think the issue is reinforcements not player mentality.
You claim 1.11 AV was the design flaw, I’m saying it’s reinforcements. But we’ll see in classic ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
won’t we now. If AV is not just zergs you will be wrong
If you don’t understand how reinforcements changes AV from an optional zerg to a forced zerg I don’t know what to tell you.
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Sorry but Classic is not for you or your audience then. The idea is to get the authentic experience, by merely basing everything off convenience I don’t really think that would deliver the experience Blizzard is aiming for.
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I’m not agree’ing or disagree’ing with you… back in the days I spent all my time in WSG/AB because, unless we had a 30+ man premade going on in order to steamroll pug in no time, the honor in AV was complete and utter crap… grinding rank 12+ was really fun, heh?
But the community feedback was pretty clear… atleast on the gorefiend server I was on. the 7-days long AV who never ends because there’s soo many guards/archers/ strong PvE mob at the final chokepoints wasn’t very entertaining.
Didn’t help that the super element lord that was supposed to help you push through those could be easily kited past the frontline, into the boss + general in order to be quickly dealt with.
as far as people avoiding eachother in AV, the problem isn’t AV design, it’s player nature: the overwhelming majority (especially once honor ranks comes out) aren’t actually interested in PvP’ing ; they want the shiny epic awaiting them at rank 12-13-14 ( and I guess 11 for the mount). They’ll do wathever they can to get the best honor per hour… and if that involve avoiding eachother in AV or intentionally throwing up in WSG in order to avoid stalemate… so be it.
1.11 AV which was when the last major changes to AV took place lasted longer in vanilla than 1.5 to 1.8 AV, so sorry i think 1.11 AV is a very authentic vanilla experience.
Ya I hope they bring back an earlier version. All we can do is ask.
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I don’t doubt what you say at all becuase that’s pretty much what Blizz has confirmed, but I don’t think all the BGs need to be geared towards the PvP rank grinders. Like you said, there’s WSG and AB. So why not keep AV in the state it was intended to be, as a PvEvP battle ground for people who enjoy it for what it is?
As for the zerging, players will always take the shortcuts that are given to them. In a competitive game I don’t think people can be blamed for that. That’s why the design needs to support the desired outcome.
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Simple really, we all are not in agreement. You’re locked in your viewpoint and wont budge, and others are locked in theirs.
You can go ahead and say that you remember this patch being better for this particular community and system… but that’s only YOUR opinion over many others.
I never cared for long AVs and haven’t cared for short AVs by any measure either, just like I don’t care for battlefield styled stages that are gigantic in space. I enjoy medium to short arenas with a Meta that rewards good play. I prefer a quicker AV, and that is mainly because I feel rewarded about accomplishing the game if I win. Long AVs just don’t hold my attention, and I feel like what I do doesn’t matter in that type of environment if I am only going to join in the BG for a limited amount of time. WSG is another one where I prefer modern timed matches where trolls can’t turtle for 6 hours in a game. AB will probably be my best friend in classic, as it was for quite sometime, but I will miss a pve race to the finish, and I will miss timed flag running.
I don’t see this as a “watered” down system by any means. Could Blizzard put more effort into this? Sure, just like anyone can put more effort in their lives. But what can they do when they have a group feeling “entitled” because they fought for over a decade, and a group who don’t see the big deal in changes here and there?
WoW Classic’s biggest critic is the hardcore fans of vanilla. Who argues and fights more than that group, citing how this patch was a “better” interpretation of the spirit of Classic?
For those that are pro 1.12. I’ve said many times now, that this version of AV adds nothing to the game. It’s not good for honor or ranking. Does playing a BG that’s played as a race to the finish really sound like fun?
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And yet zerging didn’t become the goto strat until reinforcements were added.
1.12 wasn’t played as a race though. It was still viable to play it without zerging, and that is in fact how it was commonly played.
Why do you think 1.12 was a race? And do you understand player agency? 1.5 forced turtles, reinforcements forced rushing, 1.12 left it up to the player.
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Yes, I dont mind that culture of AV at all.
Not to derail the thread too much, but Feral are very good in classic if you’re willing to farm Gnomergan for Manual Crowd Pummelers before every raid and play Alliance for kings/wisdom.
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Absolutely, the stigma out weighs reality unfortunately. With elites doing less dmg and shift pot macros they are even better than on private.
Which is why I think marks of honor are cancer. Forcing someone to do a bg to completion for such an item was fine for AB and WSG, but were a horrible thing to have in a bg like AV. Otherwise those who didn’t like the style of play that OG AV was could simply play the other 2 out of 3 bgs. Instead, the bg was ruined to make it more like the other bgs.
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The whole point is when people who played classic think classic AV it’s not 1.12 or even 1.11, it’s one of the versions in between.
Ya I plan on playing a Feral druid in classic so we’ll just have to break the stigma!
It’s just amazing.
They spent years telling us “you think you want classic WoW, but you don’t”.
And now that they’ve eaten crow and classic WoW is here, they do the exact same thing with Alterac Valley: “You think you want classic AV, but you don’t.”
Trust us, Blizzard. We do.
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I really hope its the older version as well. Its the grand epic BG I remember and I’d rather not water it down even if we start splitting hairs of when it became a race or not. WSG and AB are great BGs for short matches. AV was the large scale pvp zone that they’ve been trying to (unsuccessfully) copy since classic with things like wintergrasp and Ashran. That feeling of a large scale battle where everyone is helping out in their own way made the zone feel like an ACTUAL battleground. An ACTUAL war. It’s a mistake not to be true to what people remember as classic AV.
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And yet it’s all the people who want 1.5 AV who are trying to anyone who doesn’t you think you do but you don’t.
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