I would not call turtling “wrecking” If you’re in your base, that’s a turtle…
I would call stopping the other faction from winning wrecking their attempts… playing defense is good strategy…
Oh I agree, if you can delay the enemy team that’s a fantastic strategy, but it’s one that’s only effective for a short time in Vanilla because the healers that keep your DPS alive will OOM quickly vs 40 mildly competent players…
However that delay might be enough to win a game because your team that’s also on the other side of the map has a little longer on boss time…
Either way, I feel the old version of AV was more fun because it requires a lot more effort to get the job done…
There is also a lot more content and things for players of all different flavors to do…
With the OLD AV you have content for the raiders, you have content for the ganker, you have content for the solo PVE guy, you even have content for the dungeoneer…
It’s really a cool concept, because it has it all.
The late vanilla AV is just way too focused in a single aspect of game play… it’s less fun.
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While it doesn’t take a ton of people to mess up a zerg, it also isn’t necessarily a good strategy as it doesn’t secure a win. It’ll mess up your own team’s zerg as you don’t have enough players and turn it into a turtle war that lasts longer but is nowhere near the old AV levels of duration.
and when it comes to rewards, loosing quickly > winning slowly so most people wont want to do it anyway.
The only reason it doesn’t take in older versions of AV is because the zerg will be shut down by significantly stronger and more numerous NPCs.
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I’d prefer as close to 1.0 as possible too, but I don’t think the jump to 1.12 is a big deal. I also don’t think it’ll be anything like retail.
This has been the plan for months, it’s nothing new.
From what their posting about Classic it’s looking like they’re rolling quite a few things back regarding content and loot drop locations and rates.
Also they’re doing the world events over…
So there is that.
I was personally hoping for the older AV as well. I want to summon commandos and kill wolves/rams and feel like I’m actually contributing to a long struggle again.
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Umm… yes and a handful of people can certainly wreck a zerg. Now if you’re asking whether a premade will stomp a pug then yeah who cares, the premade wins.
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Yeah I don’t know. I think as a passion project there should probably be a little more information about some things coming out. Like, I think they could tell us how far back they recovered their data from 1.12. I believe they said “a bit before” but I don’t see the harm in telling us.
You guys know you can still turtle in 1.12 AV right?
There are no reinforcements. The games have no timers.
If you want to get your group to sit in your bosses room to wipe the enemy faction. You can do that lol. I’ll be doing that.
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It’s still possible to get long multi-day AVs in 1.12, it just needs alot of players willing to take action to do so. Blizzard removed alot of NPCs means base defense is more reliant on active player defense.
Getting players to stay at base/towers to defend them was easy when AV was new as players don’t know any better, but over time players just want to attack or ‘go outside to do stuff’ than just stay at base. Part of the reason the ‘AV zerg’ was born was alot of players themselves were not willing to defend and even associate defending as something bad and calling it turtling.
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Apparently without massive reinforcements from NPC’s it is completely impossible to fight the opposite faction…
Problem with sitting in the your own boss room, sometimes your own team mates were your worse enemy. Back then, after they implemented autogroup for the entire raid in AV, there were people that reported players that they saw back in base for ‘AFKing’ instead of ‘actively contributing’.
Actually, yes, it did. The 15 minute races started within days and were the rule within weeks on any battlegroup where anyone understood the implications.
AV is most of what I want out of Classic. With a prenerf AV, I’ll definitely buy it; without, it’s a tossup.
Before the NPC nerf, the NPCs slowed down any attempt at a lightning assault enough for the other side to respond. That’s key: they didn’t have to decide at the beginning whether to defend or not; they could zerg, and still shift to defense if the enemy offense was moving fast. Maybe things were different once everyone got full T4, but that never happened on my server.
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Well after reinforcements were added which was long after 1.12. And as the blue explicitly stated won’t be in classic 
Wrong. This was long before reinforcements were added.
Maybe there were some clueless battlegroups that didn’t catch on for a long time, but I didn’t play on one.
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Zerging started well before reinforcements were added.
Reinforcements just forced everybody to play that way regardless of how much they wanted to fight against it.
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Not a correct analysis. With NPCs, it took a lot fewer players to bog down a race zerg, so it always happened. Without NPCs, it takes a majority of the team preferring a long game over quick honor, which is difficult to get when honor means something.
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Zerging started because the community figured out it was the quickest way to win. You cannot blame Blizzard for the players making the games faster.
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That’s not even remotely what I’m saying.