Not true, there was a time in classic when AV’s were not this and you couldnt just skip to the final boss- it was under this honor system, and say whatever you will about it, it was more fun than this pile of trash
Gee, I don’t know. Perhaps the enjoyment that I felt while playing it? And for the record I found 1.7 to be the most fun, before the nerfs began.
Okay, so why didn’t other people find it fun?
And why do you not like the idea of just offering both versions?
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I don’t care if others did not find it fun. The same way I don’t care if someone doesn’t like gorgonzola, or doesn’t like jazz, or doesn’t like vanilla raids.
You know very well why, as you have brought it up repeatedly, and you got your answer repeatedly. Because wanting the best version of the content is not mutually exclusive with wanting everyone to be required to do the same thing for the same reward.
I give you credit for your unflagging attempts to white knight what is arguably the very worst state Alterac Valley has ever been in. Perhaps one day Ion will come down from on high and give you a pat on the head for your efforts.
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Great so you just don’t care. Awesome.
Okay so you care more about the rewards than the actual content.
Sorry but you still have not explained how offering both versions is an actual problem. You just resort to the I walked uphill through the snow both ways so everyone else has to, waaa waa waaa waaa…
I care as much about those who do not like early AV to the extent that retail players care about those who do not like retail. Or gorgonzola, or jazz. I thought John Lennon’s sketches were better prior to Yoko colorizing them after his death.
What I actually clearly typed is what I clearly meant. Try again with a little less obvious troll.
Is that what I did? Perhaps read more slowly what I wrote, rather than you wished I had written.
But you apparently don’t care enough about AV to realize what changes were made during vanilla and post vanilla and to realize Korraks revenge is nothing like 1.5 AV and had many changes from later expansions.
No version of vanilla AV would be anything other than what we have. The only way to get anything close to what you want is to destroy AV and the classic honor system and rebuild them from scratch. And while that could be a fun game it would be the antithesis of what classic was supposed to be a recreation of vanilla.
Seriously how is this thread still going…
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Right so you have zero care for why AV was changed during vanilla and just label anyone who thinks 1.5 had room for improvement as retail people.
Yes that is exactly what you did, you whined that some people might get gear in a different way than you. Booo… freaking hoo…
Although I started in vanilla, what was it that made AV last for days? Even with some turtling and summoning of Lok in Classic, matches only last no more than 1 hour at most.
Well, while you could take the visual layout, possibly.
I am sure it is not that hard, swaping in old models etc.
You have to go by hand and tune all the npc’s and compare against lots of data.
1.12 toons were not just amped up simply by saying increase such and such across the board 25% etc.
You would have to look at all the changes to the toons and the gear.
So it would be a lot of tedious hand work, tuning and testing, so that it actually works right.
Looking right is the easy part.
If you took the anniversary one, which is specifically tuned for retail toons
and said, oh well lets just reduce the NPC’s stuff by about half, it would work really terribad.
My point is that if they were willing to tune stuff for an iteration that they were going to give to those who didn’t ask for it and arguably didn’t want it, they could do at least that much for those who were begging for it, were giving longwinded detailed arguments for it, and were ones who were actually adding to the playerbase and profits.
This version of AV remains an embarrassing train wreck and an ugly stain on what is otherwise a fun classic experience.
They could, and i personally would have enjoyed it, but
Those who were begging for it, if looked at across the entirety of the classic playerbase, 90% of which doubtfully come into forums, ever, are probably the same as we were back in 2004.
Which is a minority.
Vocality really does not matter unfortunately.
If 10 people want something, 90 do not, all 10 who want it make noise, only 3 out of the 90 that do not ever say a peep, it is still 90 who do not.
A lot of complaint and feedback gets done through the games interface
we never see it here, but blizzard sees it.
As for as to why they went with the AV they did.
Simple, it is part of the intact 1.12 data, and they set out to keep classic as authentic as possible to the version they built it from, even so far as to keep existing bugs and oddities in place.
Same reason they are not going to put in AQ with the original C’Thun (and then unbug him of course, so he doesn’t cheat)
I mean hell, personally i think it would be cool, to go through classic item by item, by ability, by mob etc and retune all the mobs and raid and dungeons to provide the same difficulty to a 1.12 toon as they did to a 1.0x toon, but that is not what classic is, and it is not adhering to the data set at all.
(And would probably generate a lot of hate mail too)
That is pretty much what it was back then too.
At least to some of us.
To the player base at large though, in all honesty, it was probably the most popular rendition (for the same reason people are spamming it now)
You don’t think that 10% was sufficient sample size?
What % of retail accounts do you imagine asked for the early AV version they were gifted?
This thread has well over 1300 likes of the OP. In contrast the AV announcement thread “Alterac Valley in Classic” has a grand total of 133, and is arguably the worst pushback of any classic decision blizzard has made. Are you really prepared to suggest that only those most vocal are expressing themselves and are the minority?
Do you imagine it magically contrasts what we are seeing in the forum?
Nobody buys that at this point. If you had stated “least amount of effort” you may have a valid insight. However in light of the actual work and testing they put into the 15th anniversary representation of early AV, not so much.
They were willing and able to do the effort required to create a proper AV version that best represented vanilla AV. They were simply unwilling to give it to those who actually asked for it.
There is that “most popular” thing yet again.
For the bazillionth time:
Participation is not a proper measurement of quality or enjoyment.
No, it is not.
From personal experience, most of a games playerbase will not use a games social media (forums)
You will never get any kind of good cross section that way.
You could have 10 million subscribers, you would be lucky to get 10% of them into a public forum, where other people see them, can yell at them, call them names etc.
You will get feedback from most of them, through channels that are private and dont entail them having to “speak in public” so to speak.
They will use email to the company, they will use private ingame communication feedback and reporting abilities, some might even use web based tools, as long as they are private between the company and them.
So you got your 10 million people right?
You get 1 million to come on the forum with you and post Yo blizz this SUX!! CHange it NAOW!!! KthnxBai.
Ok, you got 1 million people, you are thinking Yep, that should show them.
Except
4 million people have submitted, through the private channels, feedback opposite yours, 2 million have submitted feedback in the cancellation surveys, that is opposite to your groups feedback.
And 3 million dont say anything at all, and either play as is, or cancel with no reason given.
Which only makes your group a publicly vocal minority.
It only looks popular in the public view, but behind the scenes the story is much different.
Make sense?
Totally honest answer?
I have no idea, i am so far away from retail i could not tell you a thing about it.
See above
Yes, see above
Again, you are trying to project this from your point of view, but we knew already, a long time ago, This is what classic is going to be, they were going to stick with the version they had as consistently as possible, the good the bad and the ugly, it was not up for debate.
We could ask for what ever we wanted, but it was not actually an option.
Retail is a whole other planet, and really does not enter into it.
1.12 AV is still a huge, huge mistake.
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I love pvp, always loved AV, and hadn’t really played 1.12 in the past. This version is not what I wanted. While I still enjoy AB and WsG, i find it hard to get into premades on my server. Facing premade after premade is becoming a little tiresome. I loved AV premades because that allowed for some coordination and didn’t always allow for a win. Instead we’d have fun and fair matches vs the horde. I’m on the fence on continuing my support for this game. (Side note, I consider myself a fairly decent PvP player, but premades only want rank 11 or higher, and I don’t have the time to grind rank)
Fortunately i consider pvp a side game in WoW so it’s not a huge deal that WSG/AB are unplayable because of premades and blizzard nerfed alliance in AV but refuses to do anything to horde.
As predicted, yet they still have their fingers in their ears going lalalalala…
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