I don’t think there’s ever been a point where I was a fotm meta player.
I play the specs that I like and that I want, and not whatever is highest dps (lord knows i would be spending most of my time playing mage or a warlock, not hunter)
Don’t think that you, nor anyone else who’s active on those forums knows anything about my past history in wow.
I mean again, blatantly false.
If you think that because i’m competitive and want to actually do big dam on my class/spec and do challenging content instead of farming LFR and doing world quest it makes me a fotm andy, that’s definitely an opinion, just not the one i share, but it also means that it’s pointless for us to have a discussion, because you’re playing wow like a single player, while i’m playing wow like an MMO.
Isnt, you already confirmed you dont care about what they are doing, because you constantly conflict with your own arguments.
You say you don’t like pets, cause you want a sniper fantasy
then you say the dumb pet bird is great because it feels the fantasy of falconry
then say pet isn’t part of the MM fantasy
then say the eagle is part nd make totally sense
You point characters and ignore others, you point irl examples and ignore others
you are flip flopping all the time to fit the right comment.
No ? haven’t played wlock / mage since MoP despite them consistently being top ones.
And again, how many tiers do you think hunter has been the fotm spec in the last 3 expansions ?
I’m not the one having mental breakdown about changes to my class.
In your eyes, in my eyes it’s fairly consistent.
Yes, a pet always attacking my target when I’m playing as a sniper and getting in the way doesn’t make sense thematically, it also doesn’t make sense mechanically when it simply auto-attacks and has 0 interaction with my kit.
Because it’s not constantly trying to just melee my target, and does work with the sniper/archer fantasy (be it in wc3 with the scout owl, lost ark with sharp shooter, or assassin’s creed with an eagle that can spot/mark enemies)
I point at the fact that while there are some examples of people hunting with animals, there are also plenty of examples of people hunting without them and that BM be it beast master/ hound master/ etc is far closer to that fantasy than a MM hunter is.
The fact that you can not understand it, makes me worry for the amount of lead in your pipes or in your kid toy’s paint.
Thrown weapons and specific items were never a core part of any class’s theme or identity. Warriors and rogues were never defined by, never even made much use of, thrown weapons at all.
You’re talking here about minor changes to remove excess gear slots.
That isn’t the same as losing a core part of a class’s identity for one of their three specs.
Since Vanilla, hunters have been defined by two things as a class; ranged weapons and pets. The Survival rework removed the ranged weapon aspect, but that made some sense because the Survival tree of the past always had a weird fixation on melee abilities anyway, and “melee hunter” was enough of a meme that making it a real thing wasn’t entirely shocking. And they still had pets, so they still fit that core class identity.
With these changes, the core class identity is… Wears mail armor? Because it isn’t “has pet, uses ranged weapon” anymore; that’s only BM. SV has a pet, but no ranged. MM has ranged, but no pet. The only thing left tying the three specs together into a cohesive whole is… Mail armor?
This isn’t a rework like what spriests got back in the day; they still did shadow damage, still were dot focused, still could (poorly) heal and shield. Their toolkit could do the same thing. They did not lose the ability to throw out heals.
This isn’t a rework like combat to outlaw rogues; they were still functionally the same, but with some weird gunplay added. They didn’t lose the core rogue elements of stealth, heavy CCs and the rest.
Heck, it’s not even like the disc priest rework, a much more substantial rework than those other ones. Disc was always absorb-focused, now they just did more of that, plus damage, while still healing. It just got more complicated than before. But they still had that same toolkit.
Now only one third of our specs will have the same toolkit as before.
This isn’t a change for class fantasy. This is a change to create a spec-fantasy in spite of the 20 year long class fantasy.
You tell me, im sure you played all of then as hunter
Not me either.
You cant have both, you cant say pet is bad for hunter fantasy thematic if you want to be a sniper and at the same time say the eagle is good for the hunter theme fantasy
Pick your argument
That only support the fact that it is a choice for MM hunters.
Thats completely nonsense, if you actually undertand how hunting with animals work, i assure you is much closer to MM, making the dogs scary and draw out the prey and you shot it, you dont give “kill comands”, the strenght still is you and your weapon bow/gun.
the fact that you are so delusional and lost that make me worry about your descendants might carry whatever that is over.
MM rework removed the the pets aspect, but that made some sense because the MM tree of the past always had a weird fixation on not using their pet, and they still have ranged weapons, so they still fit that core class identity.
And yet I did ?
I can still probably find screenshots of me playing my hunter back in 2011 as MM, while it doesn’t even look like you started playing until 2012.
I can, because it’s my fantasy.
And people hunting with guns supports the fact that it is a choice for SV hunters… and people hunting with spears support the fact that melee is a choice for MM hunters … o wait…
Something tells me we won’t need to worry about this for you.
Fixation? Friend, it is a single talent. One. One talent is not a fixation. If it were, you’d be just as valid calling MM a talent tree fixated on Barrage… Except there’s at least a second talent affecting Barrage directly. Maybe you also think Marksman is fixated on Chimera Shot?
Your analogy is entirely incorrect and misses the mark(sman).
And very good job proving how you totally get the entire class fantasy aspect while not even addressing the class fantasy aspect of my post. You certainly don’t come across as disingenuous at all.
For the larger part of the game MM suffered from using a pet.
Prior to that, it was simply there, not proving any benefit beyond white auto-attacks, unlike say working with your kit in a way that it did with focus fire.
So yea, if SV had a fixation with melee abilities, MM had a fixation with ignoring what the pet is doing, and fully functioning separately from it.
This rework has more interactions with the eagle in a single patch, than MM ever had with the pet.
Suffered in certain content, sure. And having a pet allowed it to thrive in others. Tell me you never watched any of the many videos of hunters soloing things with their pet before other classes could.
Existing only to provide extra damage describes auto-attacks. Nobody is bemoaning that rogues are still burdened by white damage happening.
Which is something SV also does. As do warlocks. It’s also not even remotely “fixating” on ignoring the pet, given that fixation and ignore are fundamentally opposing states. Not making a good argument why this is an MM problem. I’m not “fixated” on ignoring what my auto-attack is doing; I’m just ignoring it, because it requires no focus on my part, even though I’m benefitting from it.
Solution: Then just give MM more interactions with their already-existing pet while improving pet pathing, which would also benefit all three hunter specs as well as Unholy DKs and warlocks. Thus benefitting everyone overall.
No, you’re not doing a very good job at all of explaining why fundamentally removing a core part of the class from one spec is actually a good thing. Or showing you understand what the word “fixation” means.
MM isn’t the class. MM is the spec. Hunter is the class.
So you’re not only unable to show why removing a core part of the class’s identity from one of the specs is a good thing, you also don’t know what the difference between a class and spec even is. This on top of confusing what the word “fixated” means.
Good job. I’m truly impressed by how easily these simple enough concepts have totally eluded you. Well done, friend.
We get it, you’re upset with the change. But this player is not the one who made the change. They were not in any if the meetings where the decision was made. They have no obligation to explain the change. They are just another player who likes the change.
There is no reason for the insults and condescending remarks.
MM is not the class. Hunter is the class. A core aspect of the Hunter class should not be completely abandoned, just because a lot of peole choose not to use it in M+ and raids.
No. Holy damage abilities wasn’t a core part of the priest identity, even back in Vanilla. Holy was for your healing. Shadow was your big damage. Hell, healing overall was the biggest feature of the priest class, even a major aspect of their description.
If Shadow lost all healing ability, that would be comparable to MM losing their pets. And yes, I would probably be mad about that.
Nor did I accuse them of being in charge of the change. Weird reach here, friend.
Nor did I ask them to explain the change. Also a really weird reach here.
You might be right, but if that is the problem, then the solution might be to focus on that, and not making up scenarios where I’m accusing them of being a secret developer. Unless, like, I accuse them of being a secret developer.
But while I’m certainly being condescending, I’m not insulting. I don’t think Cel is dumb. I think they are just intentionally or unintentionally refusing to understand that a class is not a specialization of said class. And that one thing being an option is rather a stretch to call a fixation.
pretty sure back in vanilla you only spammed smite for quite some time, no?
right, it’s a more specialized version of the class. not the generic version. hence the name. MM is a “specilization” of hunter that “specializes” in ranged weapon attacks with no pet synergy
You didn’t accuse anyone of being a developer, you’re missing the point. You are directing your anger at other players when it should be directed at developers.
Apply the same exact argument as what you’ve given for the SV rework.
And hunter as a class still has access to pets.
BM gives up the “lots of shooting” fantasy to focus in on the pets.
SV gives up ranged in general to focus up on melee + pets fantasy.
MM gives up pets to focus in on “lots of shooting” fantasy.
Could MM be reworked to actually use your pet in their kit to interact with your game play in place of an the “eagle” ? Probably yes, but far more people would be upset about forcing a pet on MM than fully committing to getting rid of it.
SWP was pretty early, before or at level 5. MB was 12. If you went shadow, you for MF at 20. If you didn’t, you didn’t worry about damage, because you were already getting whispers asking you to heal WC or RFC (on Horde at least, couldn’t say on Alliance).
So not really that long at all.
And my argument has still been that removing a core part of the class from a spec because they don’t use it as often or as well is still removing a core component of the class. Akin to removing all healing abilities from Shadow, because they don’t have much synergy with healing at all, and aren’t going into M+ or raids to heal. Or reworking Outlaw to remove stealth entirely.
Yes, it’s great, they didn’t require it and it’s gone. But it still feels like a core part of the class identity is being removed when it doesn’t need to be.
But I’m not having this weirdly impossible-to-grasp-simple-statements discussion with a developer.
I think they already know what fixated means.
Correction: two thirds of Hunter are keeping its pets. Just like only two thirds of Hunter have kept their ranged weapon expertise.
Now only BM has both original core, defining features of “ranged weapon expert pet class”.
Or!!
Hear me out now, this might be mind-blowing.
Like, imagine Blizzard did this thing like talents, but more specialer. We’ll call them… Hero Talents. Let’s say every spec can pick between two.
For MM Hunters, one is called Sentinel. It replaces your pet with a magic bird. You get to access your Bloodlust without a real pet, just this bird. The bird doesn’t behave like an actual pet, and there’s even an option to just make the bird go away so you don’t even have that bird around. He’s just invisible and gives you all his proc bonuses and stuff.
Those who still want pets can pick the other tree.
Those who just don’t want combat pets? Happy.
Those who want absolutely no pet? Also happy.
