11.0.5 Paladin feedback

In Development The War Within Patch 11.0.5 PTR
42

This a thousand times. Let us change the visual to Speed of Light.

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43

While the paladin trees are being looked at, can Shield of the Righteous be given a look for Holy?

It’s Holy’s only offensive HP spender, but it requires a shield, but the Holy Paladin loot table includes 2h Int weapons, which they can’t use because it locks them out of SotR for literally no gain.

A talent to change SotR to work without a shield for Holy would solve this immensely.

2 Likes
44

Yeah, I gotta agree with this 100%.

After playing some Solo Shuffles here in tWW, Paladins do feel like they are back to being one of, if not the squishiest and slowest class in game.

Whether it’s designing paladins to be the “Defensive Hybird” or being this “High Risk, High Reward,” from a player’s perspective it doesn’t feel like either goal is being met.

If the goal is to design Paladins as a pure support role, that feels lacking as my ability to support means almost nothing if I’m unable to have some level of self sustain.

Paladins are so squishy, the burden of playing with one (especially when it comes to Paladin stacking and Forbearance) isn’t off set by any level of support the Paladin gives, nor do these Class Talents really feel like they are fixing that. =/

It would be nice to get a PvP Talent revamp sometime soon as our Class and Spec trees have now undergone two major reworks


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Some more feedback:

  • Steed of Liberty and the other Steed talents seem okay to me, but I can’t shake the feeling that it could be done better. Steed feels like it should be immune to movement impairing effects without Blessing of Freedom (whether auto-cast or manually cast by the player). However, having both this and Freedom would be broken — perhaps, then, Freedom should only be castable on allies and not ourselves. Then the follow-up talent node to Freedom could be a choice between Unbound Freedom and Steed of Glory. And, perhaps Steed of Glory should take that negative side effect from Divine Spurs that reduces Steed’s duration by 40%.
  • I also believe Steed should be baked into the core class way, way more. Paladins have all these racial mounts that are such a big deal that new races are rarely added to the class, and so I was thinking, what if these racial mounts were merged with Steed into a sort of paladin Travel Form, just for outdoor non-instanced content you understand, where one ability switches back and forth between Summon Charger (now instant) and Divine Steed based on combat status. Entering combat would dismount you. All paladin mounts would fly. The human / blood elf Charger would be updated.
  • An alternative to “paladin Travel Form” is to give Divine Steed an infinite duration in outdoor non-instanced content. Either way, class fantasy would be improved and there’s no reason not do to this. “Oh noo, paladins are more convenient when leveling and questing, whatever shall we do?”
  • There are five Divine Steed talents in the class tree now, which is pretty crazy, but I honestly wouldn’t mind if they were more interesting. Steed’s root issue in my opinion is that it doesn’t actually feel like a horse (or kodo or whatever), and definitely not like a magic spirit horse. I’m Hamstrung by a warrior, I mount, and for some reason my ethereal steed is also Hamstrung. And then when I make contact, is the target knocked down? Knocked back? And why am I so easily knocked back? When the target is not, and when I am, I ask myself why Divine Steed’s graphic isn’t just Magic Sprint. This issue could be solved by making Steed talents actually cool. Two charges. Knockback. Can’t be knocked back. Immune to movement impairing effects
 Have us make difficult choices!

Well, it took a lot of space to get all that Steed stuff off my chest, but I’d like to mention a few more things. First is that I don’t agree with Christtel that no-CD Repentance will ruin the way Ret plays in PvP. Rep is a super fun ability imo, and those who don’t like it can lock into Blinding Light and still do well.

Second is that Blinding Light should not break on holy or radiant DoT damage such as Expurgation — it already doesn’t break on Cons — and Divine Toll needs to not target it. I don’t mind that it’s intended to be flimsy and break easily, but from our own DoTs is too much.

Third is really minor, but Dawnlight shouldn’t keep you in combat.

46

Ret Paladin “Healing Meter Padding”

Feedback:

Hopefully this is easy enough to explain, or makes some sense, but for a lot of Hybirds right now, it feels bad to not have a certain level of healing meter padding.

  • As a Frost Mage, I can hit Frost Barrier for myself and because of the AoE talent, have it then benefit 2 allies.

  • As a Death Knight, I can hit AMS for myself and because of the AoE talent, have it then benefit 2 allies.

Those situations feel like icing on the cake for those abilities, and make the buttons feel as if they have a lot more value.

It doesn’t feel good to end an arena game or dungeon with less “healing” than a Mage


Not having that splash healing or the “healing padding” of those types of abilities, makes you question why you’re playing a hybrid. Why aren’t we all just playing Fury Warriors pumping out 500k HPS?

Now, looking at the new Paladin class tree, we have:

  • Holy Ritual
    • Seems cool on the surface, but my BoSac has a 2min cooldown and I don’t spec into BoP because that problem hasn’t found a solution yet
 so BoFreedom
 let’s go, I guess? =/
  • Lightforged Blessing
    • Great in Mythic+, feels terrible every where else
  • Seal of the Crusader
    • Tied to Auto Attacks, which range just got nerfed and Holy makes less use of, feels bad
  • Judgement of Light
    • Is decent in concept, but feels under tuned due to abundance of “healing talents.”
  • Selfless Healer
    • Nice if you’re healing someone else, but has little to no value if you are the one being attacked, took a big hit, or lower in HP
  • Lightbearer
    • Nice Raid Talent for sure, but again, if I’m being attacked and I’m doing the self healing, what benefit does this have? If I’m the Hpal in a Dungeon Group, where’s the benefit? etc


Knowing the history of Paladins, it feels like we’re quickly going to get into 8 “dead healing talents,” spending 3 Holy Power on a WoG, pressing SoV, and casting 4 FoLs just to amount to one hit of Victory Rush


Question:

I understand the time constraints, and that this isn’t easy to balance right out the gate, but is there any better way to handle these healing talents so that it feels good and impactful to have 1-3 talents/choices verses having 6+ underwhelming ones?

I don’t hate the idea of Paladin’s “niche” being off-healing or whatever, obviously the value plummets in Arena which sucks, but it feels like it’s being stretched too thin, and similar to everything else, just disorganized or lacking direction. =/

  • What is it that you want the main source of Ret healing to be?
    • FoL+ Light’s Celerity + Selfless Healer?
    • WoG + Guided Prayer + Healing Hands?
    • Lightforged Blessing + Passives?
    • All Passive?
    • Mix/All of the above
  • How do you balance all this out and ensure, since we can get everything, that everything in itself doesn’t feel weak? =/
1 Like
47

Stop with these “give us more steed make it core” steed was an aberration brought from diablo. It never had to do with warcraft paladins. Stop it.

Do you play a feral? Have you done any pvp as or against feral? It is very gimmicky and not fun to play and play against. What part of you fails to understand you will have to run precog and stop mid combat to cast rep over and over again. You will be belanced around it. Its degenerate gameplay and not a case of “dont use it”. Rep will turn ret into a ccer and no damage or healing buff will go through because one rep that goes off can absolutely win you the game.

The change should make rep instant and have a cd. Like paralysis. In fact paralysis was original rep

1 Like
48

Why all these pvp’ish talents in our class talent tree? Seriously. Just put Faith’s armor, Stoicism, Consecrated Ground, Light’s Revocation and similar ones in the PVP TALENT (which also needs some update). Why put it in the class tree? There’s A LOT of great suggestions all over the forum that could become talents in place of those.

Why do we need to spend so many talents on Steed-related stuff?

Why does Of Dusk and Dawn still exists? Such a boring passive that doesnt deserve to be a last node of talent. Let me correct the phrase. Our 3 end nodes are 3 passive, boring talents.

When we’ll be able to customize our AW wings colours? Why can’t we get new colours, like the blue one from when we cast Divine Toll?

Also.

Give Templar’s Verdict baseline, so Holy Paladins have a spender if they want to use a 2-handed weapon.
And this one goes as a personal dream
 but Ret paladins should be able to use a sword and shield for DPS as well if they want to.

Open your freaking mind to new ideas, please!

49

I may have done it differently if I designed the class, but we’re already like ninety percent of the way there. Steed is our only real movement ability, it’s the first talent we take in the class tree, and there are now four additional talents dedicated to it. There’s no stopping the horse, sorry. Work with what we have.

Yes, no need to be condescending. I did a total of a dozen shuffle lobbies in DF, reached 2500, and then stopped playing. I’m pretty good at PvP (although I may focus on m+ this xpac).

I’m aware of how Feral played in DF. Last I heard the PvP talent that gave Feral damage after a successful Cyclone was being removed. If that went through it was a good change, but Feral should still be going for a lot of Cyclones as that’s a core part of its class. I don’t think Repent will get to that level because we don’t have the same tools to cast with melee on us; it’s also a lot worse for us to get locked out. I think Ret will use it in these situations: against double casters in 3’s, when your teammate in 3’s is something that gets trained even more than Ret and has CC on Fear DR, and sometimes in 2’s. In these situations having the option to run Repent without a cooldown will make Ret more dynamic, skillful, and fun to play.

But if you don’t think it will be fun, then I bet permanently locking into Blinding Light will work just fine.

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 or they should make Templar’s Verdict baseline to all specs, so Holy can have a spender for 2-hand weapons. We’ll be trading bonus armor for damage, that’s a choice i could make.

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I’ll second the sentiment that Of Dusk and Dawn (and its Seal of Order / Fading Light upgrades) feel kind of meh for capstone talent nodes. As much as I like Divine Toll being higher in the tree, it currently (on the live servers) a good baseline for how talents this far down should feel. Divine Toll? Powerful, flashy, has utility. Zealot’s Paragon? Extending Avenging Wrath increases how much time we spend in our “feeling awesome” window - but it does so actively, through gameplay, requiring button presses. Of Dusk and Dawn? It just kind of
 happens in the background. A little bit of extra damage every so often, a little bit of extra damage reduction / CDR. Maybe the effect is powerful, but it’s practically entirely passive, with no FX to at least make it feel good.

I find that this
 meh-ness is there on the PTR even more strongly. For context, I play Protection:

  • Worthy Sacrifice, as others have identified already, is not useful because someone below 35% health is already at a serious risk of dying, Blessing or no Blessing. I like the idea of triggering BoS automatically, but if low health is going to be the trigger, the talent needs to come with some way of getting the person out of the danger zone - maybe a heal, maybe a shield, maybe a version of BoS that transfers more damage to the paladin.
  • Righteous Protection feels like a PvP talent. Poisons and Diseases that get applied repeatedly are very rare in PvE.
  • Holy Ritual looks like it’s going to heal for an insignificant amount? My 600 item level paladin on live has a little over 60k spell power; a 60k heal on an ally with 3-4M health isn’t going to do anything.
  • Blessed Calling seems nice, but it doesn’t feel like a Tier 3 talent.
  • Lead the Charge doesn’t feel strong enough for how deep in the tree it is. I think a more fun and useful version of this talent would be to make Divine Steed grant a movement speed bonus to my party/raid - a bit like Savage Roar, but while keeping it a personal movement CD that just has a small group benefit (10-20% feels good).
  • Faith’s Armor isn’t relevant on live servers, it won’t be relevant in 11.0.5 either. Baseline Shield of the Righteous increases my damage reduction from 44.63% to 61.75% (62.89% with live’s version of Faith’s Armor). An additional maybe 2% damage reduction from armor, when what usually kills us are spells, is just
 irrelevant.
  • Stoicism is straight up a PvP talent, PvE content doesn’t stun us, or when it does, it’s either player error or a planned stun.
  • Seal of the Crusader, Lightforged Blessing, and Lightbearer are all individually nice, but none of them feel impactful enough to deserve a spot this deep in the tree. If we are going to be spending points in talents that strictly benefit other people, I would want those talents to be few, and I would want them to be punchy; either that, or put some player power into them as well (Selfless Healer does that, but I personally don’t like it). I don’t want to be spending half my Tier 3 talent points for no personal gain.
  • Eye for an Eye is a nice idea, if the numbers work out.
  • No one in this thread (or the Protection-specific thread) seems to like Light’s Revocation. The “can cast Divine while while under Forbearance” is nice, but doesn’t justify making this a final node.

And that’s just the issues I have with the bottom of the class tree. Others have identified other issues higher up, that I usually agree with.

4 Likes
52

A lot of these talents feel like they’re being put in place to present a choice without actually affecting anything meaningfully.
Such as:
Sacred strength - A 2% increase isn’t really noticeable, and why put another throughput talent when you just went and started getting rid of them?
Afterimage - Not even close to healing hands, extremely low throughput.
Worthy sacrifice - Seems like it’s here just to make another node? I don’t understand the idea behind this. If you proactively use Bosac, this is a waste. If you don’t proactively use bosac, then you’re not using the ability correctly.
Divine Reach - When would this even be useful? A raid with 20 people with groups that have to be more than 40 yrds apart, and there’s only a single paladin?

Then we have some talents which offer a small amount of healing. All this healing seems to be tuned very low.
A just reward
Holy Ritual
Judgement of Light
Lightbearer

I get that paladins are a melee with support and healing as their identity. None of these talents feel like they’re going to be noticeable though. Feels like bunch of small heals added onto some abilities to make some extra nodes.

53

It is not a choice of “ret wont play like that because ret doesnt have the tools feral has”. This is exactly why it will play like that I just told you, you will gem precog.

Also blizzard YOU FORGOT TO UNNERF DIVI E PROTECTION FOR RET WHY IS IT STILL 10% IN PVP COMBAT COME ON WHAT IS GOING ON

54

This is exactly how I felt. These healing talents in the tree are very undertuned. Peoole are foaming saying “muh class tree is saved now” when in reality whats the point of getting them if they dont mive healthbars. We could have soecced golden path all this time but it was so trash we didnt even bother. No we will get these undertuned healing talents for “free” but they are undertuned nonetheless.

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55

This is one of my favorite new talents. There are some situations where poisons and diseases get reapplied in PvE (in Siege of Boralus off the top of my head), and even when they aren’t, just having a second dispel is nice. It may also dispel ourselves seeing as how Sac technically buffs the paladin.

I like Light’s Revocation too. It should make for power moments for every spec, and will be priceless when another paladin uses a Forbearance ability on you.

I think the devs should take a hard look at the passive healing talents and decide which are worth keeping.

  • A Just Reward is boring follow-up talent to one of my favorite abilities. Cleanse deserves better!
  • Holy Ritual and Judgment of Light are probably safe cuts.
  • Golden Path and Lightforged Blessing are cool for m+ imo, but I suppose it’s not the end of the world if Golden Path stays cut.
  • I think Lightbearer should also apply to our own healing, but even then it feels more like a final-tier talent for Prot than for other two specs.
56

I don’t like Steed either, but if you’ve PvP’d these last few days
 Paladins could use all the help they can get in becoming a more modern class. :sweat_smile:

  • Death Knights with double grips, double steed.
  • Dragons with Blinks, and shadow clones

  • Monks kicking people up in the air


In PvP, the design of Paladins is still just 2 expansions behind everyone else, whatever benefits we can get, we need.

(Keeping in mind we lost the dispel protection on BoF, range on our kick, our slow on WoA, etc
)

57

Sure, but both feel too situational for me for where they are. I am glad you like them, and hopefully we end up with a version that gives me what I want without taking away from what you want.

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PvP Feedback:

Class Feedback:

This goes for all Paladin specs, but the design intent feels absent from the Class as a whole, which ultimately makes it an extremely unfun gaming experience. Like we are not given the tools to succeed.

There’s no identifiable strengths.

  • A DK is really strong for their ability to slow, peel and to an extent, CC.
  • A Rogue is really strong for their ability to CC and lock a target down, while being relatively slippery
  • Etc


(Retribution Paladin Design in 10.0.7)

Questions:

While this is a dated Ret Design concept from DF, and I understand things change, it creates these really interesting questions:

  • Does the Paladin class actually reflect your idea of it?
  • Should your “Melee-Based, plate wearing, hybird healer,” feel like the squishiest class in game?
  • Are we indeed a “melee-based” class, and if so, why do we have so much range on all our abilities? What do we have that supports this identity?
  • Are we a “caster-based” class, and if so, why don’t spells such as Rebuke or HoJ have increased range or at least the option of increased range via talents?
  • Are we a “Mixed melee/caster-based” class, and if so, are we given the tools, like mobility, to perform in that space? (Think Evokers and the ability Hover)
  • Are the updates in our talents really reflecting the idea of what a Paladin should be, or are there choices being presented to us, that allows us to customize our own playstyles?
    • Jurisdiction vs Heavenly Strength type stuff

  • As a Holy Paladin, are the “high risk, high reward” talents, like Divine Plea, really that rewarding?
    • I played Divine Plea vs a Disc and I still ended up with 0% mana when the disc was at 60%
 
 
 
 ???
  • What’s the “Role” a Protection Paladin should play? Is it a flag carrying tank? A off-healer? An Aug. like support?
    • Again, do we have talents that adequately reflect the intended design, or the options to customize it to our own playstyles? Those Kiss/Curse type talents


Ret Paladin Feedback:

Everyone else’s Power creep vs Our “hidden” nerfs

  • Feedback:

Coming into tWW, a lot of classes ended up seeing a lot of defensive buffs.

  • Hunters with thier two charges of their defensives
  • Shamans with their Shield Totem
  • Warriors with their Second Wind buffs
  • All classes with their hero talents, etc


It’s not to say that these classes didn’t need buffs, especially in the PvE side of the game, but these buffs grossly outscaled Paladins’ offensive abilities.

Our Defensives are now comparable or worse than most other classes in the game, but we’ve seen nothing given offensively to Paladins like MS, purges, knock downs, etc


In addition to not getting anything offensively new
 we’ve actually seen multiple “hidden nerfs” throughout the last few patches.

  • Unbound Freedom can now be dispeled.
  • Wake of Ashes no longer slows enemies by 70%.
  • Consecration is no longer a casted ability, allowing the Paladin to attempt to remove enemies from Stealth.
  • Removal of Crusader’s Reprieve removed the increased range on our Interrupt.
    • We have no instant mobility, and no range on our kick, but our Kick didn’t get any improvements, our snares didn’t get any improvements, our mobility didn’t get any improvements, etc

  • Blizzard stealth deleted Judgements of the Pure[PvP Talent] from Retribution, but kept it for Holy and Prot??? lol
    • Just so conveniently DKs are destroying everyone with diseases
 this talent gets removed, :joy:

Questions:

  • The most important question, imo, is-- now that everyone else has gotten defensive buffs, what offensive pressure do Paladins bring to the team?
    • If a Warrior or Hunter no longer needs BoSac because their own self sustain/defensives got buffed
 where does that leave the value of a Paladin?
  • Again, kindof going into the strengths and weaknesses, how does Blizzard balance out other classes’ improvements versus what a Paladin has and provides?
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59

Disclaimer: This is a long post that is focused mainly on the use of Prot in PvE World/Solo content and all forms of PvP. I am mostly pointing out this I think have room for improvement, it is not intended to be overly negative. The class feels very fun to play, but at the same time feels very weak compared to other tanks, and compared to its former self.

Prot Talents:
There are a total of 11 talents related to Avenger’s shield, even taking all of them, it still does not feel like avenger’s shield is an impactful button. When AS was introduced in Wotlk, it felt amazing to press. Now, with the loss of Holy Power generation, and the lack of damage/strong enough synergies, it feels like something to press just to agro mobs in PvE.

Hand of the Protector - While this talent has remained unchanged from Dragonflight, it used to be much much stronger. Hand of the Protector was originally introduced in Legion and was the predecessor to WoG. It is a bread & butter prot paladin ability, that both functions as a major defensive, and major utility through off healing. With the current state of WoG, the talent feels severely undertuned.

Righteous Protector - Another talent that has existed for Prot since Legion. It had been nerfed by 50% since SL, making the coupling nerf to Guardian of the Ancient Queen that much impactful. I believe it should return to reducing wings/guardian CD to 1s per Holy Power spent, instead of 0.5s.

Uther’s Devotion - The change to a single talent point is a great improvement, opening up more options. I do wish this ability worked like the shadowlands legendary, or was more close to it. The SL legendary reduced CDs of all blessings (BoP, spellward, BoF, and BoS) based on Holy Power spent, while the current iteration it a flat reduction and drops BoF and BoS for Divine shield and Lay of Hands. Personally I wish it would be based on Holy Power spent and would be for blessings instead of DS/LoH.

PvP Talents:
Guardian of the Ancient Queen - This has a major bug since Beta testing for TWW. The ability simply does not work. When the angel is summoned, she does not channel and just sits there. Needs to be fixed. Additionally, the ability was nerfed to 5 min. While it is essentially a divine shield able to be used on anyone, its CD is significantly longer than Divine Shield (with talents), and can be countered with a single CC. I believe it should be changed back to a 3 min CD.

Judgements of the Pure - Would love to see this added back in for more utility/options.

Steed of Glory - Should also apply the same benefit as Steed of liberty when this talent is selected.

Bear the Burden - The BoF reduction would obviously need to be removed if my previous ask on Uther’s Devotion was implemented. This talent seems to just be a bandaid for a larger design issue with Prot paladin. Since Prot’s major re-design in legion, WoG/Hand of the Protector was a core, powerful, and FUN ability to press. It has since been given to all Paladins as WoG, and nerfed into feeling extremely lackluster. Prot can barely self heal let alone healing allies. With the addition as Mana cost on WoG, Prot now goes oom in ~1min. This talent fixes that, but WoG still fundamentally feels weak, and with this talent is not even worth casting on allies. I believe mana cost needs to be removed from Prot Paladin WoG and this talent re-designed.

Paladin Talents:
Generally I like a lot of the changes/intent of the changes. It frees up a lot of points to be able to pick and choose more things.

Too many talents related to divine steed. Too many just make it longer or have huge draw backs. Pally seems to be forever a wheel chair class, and seems to be behind other class designs by 1-2 expansions at this point. Make the charger 2 charges baseline and remove root when casted. Additional talents for extending duration or reducing CD might be fine.

Afterimage - insanely undertuned. If WoG hit like it did in early SL (~20% of max HP) I might feel differently. My calculation says this talent increases WoG healing by 3.75%. Seems horrible compared to Ret healing hands which increases the healing by ~50% on average. As it is currently the echo would have to heal 300% to tempt me to take it.

Freedom as a choice node with steed of liberty feels terrible. See my previous point about incorporating steed of liberty into divine steed.

Unbound freedom is great to have in the tree, but it should make it immune to being dispelled.

Lightforged Blessing - This has potential to be solid as is. Until I have more time to test it in actual use cases, I do not have a strong opinion other than I like the idea of it.

Holy Ritual - Great to see this type of ability back from Legion, but it seems extremely undertuned. Blessings will not be cast frequently, perhaps 3 per minute. Right now it seems to heal about ~2% of max hp total. I’d like to see this increased by 3-5x so see valuable.

Blessed Calling - Seems okay, but like my point about Holy Ritual, it wont have high uptime so I’m not sure. Would rather see it give an offensive or defensive bonus. Also, I’m not positive but it seems to be bugged and not working.

Eye for an Eye - Glad it has returned.

Seal of the crusader - Similar to the one above. Like the idea, but considering the number of attacks per minute, I seems undertuned. My testing indicated that it would heal ~11.8% of max HP per minute of auto attacks. Considering in PvP there are many times where you may not be auto attacking, it seems like it may not have value here.

Of Dusk and Dawn - Glad this was combined into one talent.

Lightbearer - Why is this a capstone? It seems more like a PvE Protection Pally baseline ability rather than something that costs talent points, let alone a capstone.

Hero Talents:
I agree with much of the current discourse on the paladin forums. Hammer of Light felt fantastic to press when it was bugged allowing it to be spammed for 12sec. I would like to see it reverted, but realize it makes the capstone an issue that would need to be changed. If it was reverted but the damage was significantly changed, it could easily turn a fantastic feeling ability, to one that you just kind of press when available (current Templar’s verdict/Final verdict).

PvP:
Arena - I won’t say much here, because most of the community gets toxic when talking about tanks in Arena or PvP in general. I feel WoW has continued to evolve to have more and more specs viable in all content which is good. I would like to see the day where everything is viable in all content at all levels.

Solo Shuffle - I broke this out from arena because it is in a strange situation which mimics what I stated above. There is an extreme disconnect between the design of the spec and execution. Prot Pal was moved into a healer only category in Solo Shuffle, fighting only other Prot Paladins. This indicates that it is viewed as a healer. However, massive healing nerfs, utility nerfs, and damage nerfs makes Prot Paladin fit no where. Personally, I think the healing nerfs in SL should not have happened, and prot pal should have been forced to take the role of a healer in all PvP content. It essentially would be treated as another healing spec until a major redesign changed that. I’m sure if anyone comments on this part it will mockingly be something to the effect of “good riddance”. See my previous paragraph.

BGs- Similar to what I stated in the previous sections, Prot Pal seems to fulfill no role here. Prot’s main tankiness, particularly with the PvP nerfs, is healing and immunities. Immunities were nerfed or do not work with the Guardian Bug, healing has been gutted, and blocking doesn’t equate to much tankiness unlike BFA. Prot Paladin is extremely immobile and immunities do not work with Flag carrying. Damage and healing output is low in group combat. Prot pal goes OOM in ~1min through healing allies for insignificant portions of their HP. The new PvP talent Bear the Burden removes the OOM issue, but it becomes pointless for healing others as the output is already too low.

General Comments/Summary:
Consecration - The ability feels bad and archaic. Make it travel with you at a minimum.

Divine Steed - Too weak, too many talent points required. Paladin is too much of a wheelchair.

Healing - WoG mana Nerf + AS HP nerf = gutted the main two abilities of a prot paladin since legion. Fundamental shift, but the design and talents still seem focused on these two core abilities. Which is it? Is WoG and AS a main ability for Prot, or are they not? If they are not, then what is? Right now nothing feels great to press, but the rotation feels good. Glad there are more resources for off healing, would like to see those numbers tuned up, would like to see more in the prot tree.

Avenger’s Shield - Need a major change here. Either replace many of the talents with something more interesting, or dramatically increase its damage and bring back HP generation. I miss when this button felt great to press and when getting Grand Crusader procs made me glad.

Wish we had Ashen Hallow and/or Vanquisher’s hammer. I miss Ashen Hallow more, as Hammer of Light is a much better ability that does the same thing as Vanq Hammer.

Tankiness - Prot feels quite squishy. It either needs better scaling with defenses/block, or a large increase to its passive/active healing.

Overall - I love the feel of this spec, that has not changed since legion. I like a lot of the changes being proposed in 11.0.5, but there still remains a fundamental disconnect between the design direction and execution. Some changes need to be made to address this, along with variable levels of tuning. Thanks for reading.

4 Likes
60

To this day the most awesome I have ever felt was during one season in BFA when there was one specific pull in Atal’Dazar, where a pair of trolls had such a high attack speed, I would regularly be able to use Avenger’s Shield every GCD, and it would be Grand Crusader’d too. I’ve been chasing that high ever since.

2 Likes
61

Something to consider since Anniversary patch.

Any chance we can get this Consecration animation as a optional glyph.

Hurts seeing it used in Priory and knowing it could have been ours.

5 Likes