11.0.5 Paladin feedback

In Development The War Within Patch 11.0.5 PTR
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Talent choice - Steed of Liberty or Blessing of Freedom
Should NOT be a choice node, instead you should get both.
You are forcing a melee playstyle even for holy, therefore, give Paladins the necessary tools to function. Stop inventing handicaps for Paladin that other classes don’t have.

SoL also takes class power / class identity away if you wanted to use Freedom on someone else. Stop taking abilities away…

Divine Steed
Prefer that it ignores slows/roots without talent point(s).
Prefer an option to remove horse [visual] completely. Especially for taurens. Use Speed of Light animation instead.

Unbound Freedom
This should make Blessing of Freedom also undispellable (again.) Update would be nice to make it ignore knockback effects.

Divine Spurs
Explain why this talent needs a huge negative effect? I could see a reduced duration IF it had a massive speed boost. Again with creating handicaps that don’t need to exist…bad talent. Remove negative, combine effect with another talent point.

Suggest combining divine spurs (without penalty) with cavalier.

FOUR talents that interact with divine steed.
Five if unbound freedom will increase divine steed speed.
SIX if you also count Lead the Charge.

Unbound blade (Ret)
Rework learned ability. Let Ret be able to cast consecration manually. Stop taking abilities away.

Light’s Revocation
This will make fighting Paladins [more] hated to fight against if they are allowed to immediately lay on hands + divine shield. Please don’t create that gameplay. Healing is currently low vs “non-hybrids” and will just be another excuse for Ret to not be a functional melee class or have anything nice.

Lead the Charge, Blessed Calling
Make other people faster but not you. Except for a 3% that probably won’t stack with enchants. Who is making these talents???

This weird obsession with forcing Paladins to be slow needs to stop. Don’t create talents with negatives. Stop taking choices away. Make real talents.

Paladins probably aren’t expecting to be fast, but they should be hard to stop similar to a Death Knight. Compare what you are “giving” Paladins in 11.0.5 to DK abilities.
Death Charge, Wraith Walk, Death’s Advance. Paladins should be more like that instead of wheelchair slowed/rooted.

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They did all these changes, but haven’t fixed Tyr’s Deliverance…

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I think it’s unfortunate that yet another paladin talent re-work doesn’t stop forcing divine steed onto people.

WTB choice talent against divine steed. I’d prefer MoP era pursuit of justice as an option.

As far as steed visuals go, I think they could just add it to the barber shop the way they do for druid forms to let you pick a mount OR speed of light style visual instead.

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Don’t force us to take blessing of sacrifice or blessing of freedom in order to get sacred strength. It feels bad having to take abilities in the talent tree in order to get passives. I beg of you blizzard, don’t ruin pallys this way!!!

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Hi! Just wanted to notice that Blessing of Summer is not working with the new Holy Ritual and Blessed Calling effects, added in this PTR.

I know 'Seasons are not the original paladin blessings, but due to the way the new talents are worded, they should work with them.

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While minor, Merciful Auras healing effect during Aura Mastery should heal all targets inside your aura (and not have a fixed 40 yards range).

This is mostly to create a consistent behavior, since now we have 2 non-redundant talents that increase aura range (Divine Reach & Divine Vision).

The “inside aura range” effect will be an interesting minor mechanic to play around in Battlegrounds, specially larger or 40x40 ones.

Obs.: A recolor of some traditional aura-related icons would be great for more visual distinction in the paladin tree.

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Agreed, this new talent tree feels like i’m being punished and has a lot of bloat no one will pick. it feels more limiting than before…

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There is no way this talent tree will go live, it is too grossly overpowered. I love almost everything about it, but it gives us too much. They will be screaming to nerf us harder than they did during our last rework.

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There’s a lot of bloat to get what you need.

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Overall love the direction and appreciate all the work in the class tree. It’s great to see. Before it was a death sentence if Holy and ret played together due to forbearance which shouldn’t exist in todays wow in the first place. However needs a few small changes

Shouldn’t need 4+ talent nodes for steed. It’s crazy to have to put well over 10% of talents into steed. No other classes have that but overall it’s a step in the right direction. Steed simply needs some consolidation from here to fix it by lowering it into 3 talents. Or to have some type of true gap closer.

FV doesn’t hit like it should for a spender, it needs a buff otherwise it’s essentially hitting for the same as the builders. And nowhere near what the other classes have in that aspect. Pala is near the bottom for DPS, especially ST dps. I assume after the first week this will likely be addressed seeing where things stand to bring it more to the center of everyone else.

It made no sense to have the only dmg buff to having a shield equipped for rets considering rets don’t use shields. Seems misplaced entirely and that should’ve been for prots with something else changed for rets (FV)

Again overall it’s a step in the right direction as a strong support class and obviously there will be a few changes to balancing and the skill tree.

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Pandaria isn’t coming back (hopefully)

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Forgot to add. The PvP talent is in desperate need of modernization

A lot of the talents are 100% useless/ don’t function and are not viable in today’s game.

If this could be a priority to get this up to date the entire class would appreciate it

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After years of not playing I resubbed and really enjoyed the paladin, after reading the patch notes and seeing everything I enjoyed being removed. I lost the urge to play paladin all together.

I really enjoyed things like * Golden Path and its augment talent.
Touch of light and Incandescent were so much fun on prot and holy.

I know I may be an outlier but I really don’t care that much about divine steed.

It feels bad to see two good healing sources removed to get 3 steed talents and a 5% buff to word of glory.

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I agree. Mathematically, golden path was never particularly strong, but it was nice to have the option. Plus, it added a ton of class fantasy to the class, since it only makes sense that consecration would hurt enemies and heal allies. But the stuff they’ve added has somehow threaded the needle between not expanding the class fantasy and not being useful to the spec as a whole.

Truly, truly impressive. /s

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15

It does work with ritual, but not blessed calling.

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the variety of choices added to the tree seems exciting at first glance but I would like verification on if several of the new talents that say they effect allies will effect you as well because if they don’t it kind of makes them useless talents imo. As it is its pretty pointless to put any points in the right side capstone area.

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If they buffed sword and board Ret enough to complete with either prot for survivability or Ret for damage it wouldnt be problem putting talent changes and development time into it, but it offers low damage and low survivability after the proposed changes so sword and board Ret cant be a thing we will see people do.

The weapon restrictions on FV and Divine Storm would have to be removed, and tuning done to lean one way or the other, damage equal or close with some added survivability or damage less but hopefully not terrible with a lot more survivability. Without the range of FV and the effective AoE of Divine storm it is pointless.

Actual concerns of mine from the past were:

How could a Ret in combat in a BG survive the MM 70 yards away that appears after you have Forbearance or BoP is on CD? This is addressed some by having Divine Shield ignoring Forbearance, Thank you.

How do you get to the Hunter if you cant LoS? This hasn’t been solved with the total 6 steed related talents and without a instant or close to it gap closer we rely on teammates to kill the hunter who is 70 yards away or they close half the distance and use grip. If we had a rotational ability like blade of justice that could add (from a BoJ augmenting talent) a Shadowstrike effect to it, if our weak steed got us 2/3s closer to the hunter, BoJ could get us the rest of the way there. Having no instant mobility is a huge handicap Vs ranged enemies.

Retribution still has no Disarm, and no MS, and recently lost its dispell. In a 2s or 3s Arena settting who we team up with is decided by who has an MS. In BGs we can choose to follow someone who has MS and attack their target. But it would nice if we had our own pvp tools.

On the topic of pvp tools. Rets pvp talents are a 50%-80% nerfed shells of their former selves, the nerfs to our pvp talents is devastating. Additionally we have the fewest of any spec and I believe the least impactful. Pvp talents need attention.

Self healing. As a hybrid, blessings and their 11.5 improvement are good, having them dispelled early isnt fun, but thats wow combat, I would like to know if we could maybe have FoL and WoG heal for more than 1/16th of someones health. Players harder hitting offensive abilities can remove 25% - 40% of someone health, and many hybrid specs healing is strong enough, but Rets healing does 5× less than other dps specs. Why is that? Can we fix it?

Although damage output being high is fun, I havent asked for that here. Ret ST damage on live is known to be… subpar at best. What I’d like to see is functioning in combat solutions to help us connect to the target and live a bit when we get there. Divine Protections pvp specific nerf feels unnecessary, Avenging Wrath/Crusade pvp nerfs feel unnecessary, Shield of Vengeance pops about as soon as it is applied. The absorption value may need to be increased.

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I liked the idea of Golden Path - and I think it was okay in Shadowlands? Its numbers just weren’t there in Dragonflight and The War Within; not sure why it wasn’t simply buffed. Similarly, I like the idea of paladins being able to provide some passive healing to the party/raid, which a few of the new talents seem to focus on… but why remove Golden Path if that’s the direction you want to go in?

At a glance, I think what I’ll miss the most is the pure damage talents in the class tree, which I would pick for questing / open world content.

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Why havnt they made lightsmith a true melee healer light fistwever, it would be so amazing to be able to heal the way a range pally heals doing dng maybe something like a disc prist would be amazing

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Prot paladin already lacking power wise and it’s getting nerfed from these changes

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