11.0.5 Paladin feedback

Revamping the Paladin Class Tree is really appreciated. Some of these changes are truly huge steps in the right direction, and just wanna give my first impression feedback for Ret and Holy after playing a bit of tWW now. :smiley:

Retribution Class Tree:

Auras of the Resolute

  • Feedback:
    It’s really nice to see Auras as 1 talent again and given “baseline.” However, they still feel like a “set it and forget it” Devo Buffs
  • Question:
    Is there any chance we could see Auras expanded on either through this talent, or others, to make the choice feel more powerful like a Druid Form? Added visuals, etc?

Lay on Hands

  • Feedback:
    Lay on Hands, Empyreal Ward, and Healing hands are great optional upgrade nodes, and the layout is nice. However, the strength and frequency of Lay on Hands is beginning to be a bit much.
  • Question:
    Where do you see the strength and power of Lay on Hands vs something like Nature’s Swiftness? Don’t want to get Paladins nerfed, but there are times when this feels like a super powerful, very frequent heal in Mythic+

Cleanse

  • Feedback: Cleanse and A just Reward are pretty decent niche spell

Fist of Justice

  • Feedback: It’s nice to see this have a more consistent timer, but it does feel bad that this is being nerfed while still being the only single target Magical Stun in game. =/
  • Question: While this is more aimed towards PvP, how do you compare having only Hammer of Justice vs something like Fel Eruption + Chaos Nova or Storm Bolt + Shockwave? How does the cooldown, duration and magical aspect balance out?

Repentance/Blinding Light

  • Feedback: Light’s Countenance is going to be broken in PvP please nerf, LOL.
  • Question: Similar to HoJ being the only magical stun, Blinding Light is I believe the only magical AoE CC of all the melee, still breaks on damage and removes debuffs. How do you balance these out?

Turn Evil

  • Feedback: Cool this is being buffed, but 2 talent points feels like a heavy investment here compared to the rest of the tree.
  • Question: Are there any modern/updated ideas you may have to showcase the Paladin Classes’ dominance over Void, Undead, and demons? (Not just Wake of Ashes)

Divine Steed

  • Feedback: It’s still not better than Death Charger and Lead the Charge feels grossly overpowered as well, lol. Feels like Lead the Charge is going to be nerfed into the ground and we’ll just have 3/6 Dead Horse Talents. =/
  • Question: While I understand tying Freedom to Steed as it’s a popular community request, it is warranted to ask if it’s removing too much flavor from Paladins in general? Losing button bloat isn’t always a bad thing, but Paladins are getting to a point where the class is feeling a bit shallow.

Obduracy and Sanctified Plates

  • Feedback: It still feels redundant =/
  • Question: Why keep Obduracy and not add Pursuit of Justice or a Crusader Aura buff in some way?

Rebuke

  • Feedback: Rebuke losing its range, and being the only melee without an instant gap closer feels pretty bad.
  • Question: Is there any chance Rebuke or Punishment could regain some of that Interrupt Range for Paladins? Or add a small charge like Skull Bash? idk, just feels a bit bad now.

Blessing of Sacrifice

  • Feedback: It’s a good ability but Sacrifice of the Just feels redundant with Imp. Blessing of Protection, but also feels mandatory for today’s day of WoW. Compared to other healers and support classes, the 1 min cooldown just feels like a must.
    Also, having 3 talents dedicated to an ability you cannot use on yourself is getting to be a bit much.
  • Question: In tWW, solo play and Delves were really emphasized as a new way to play, and while it’s great to have paladin’s strengths be in helping others, are the BoSac Talents beginning to be too much?

Holy Ritual and Blessed Calling

  • Feedback: This is the tedious point of “words matters” and where it fits in with Paladins

  • Question: Does this also effect the casting Paladin and does it work during Blessing of Dusk, Blessing of Dawn and Blessing of An’she?

Divine Toll

  • Feedback: The positioning of this ability is so much better for being a Class Core Talent, but what Divine Toll actually does is still very lame for Ret and Holy

  • Question: Is there any chance we could see Divine Toll changed to be something more exciting for the Paladin Class? Blessed Champion just killed the uniqueness of casting multiple Judgements and for Holy, casting Holy Shock feels pretty hallow now that Glimmer is gone.

Capstones

  • Feedback: First impressions is that they feel very underwhelming, their positioning feels off and they really lack that “fun factor.”
    • Holy = Lightbearer
    • Protection = Light’s Revocation
    • Ret = Of Dusk and Dawn
  • Question: How does Blizzard feel about where they are positioned on the tree? How Lightbreaer’s effects Delves and that emphasize on solo play, and ultimately how do you feel about the overall fun factor? Doesn’t really feel like it nails that epic conclusion like “The Hunt, Heart of the Wild or Grabby Hands” all do. =/



Retribution Spec Tree

Range vs Melee

  • Feedback: The Range vs Melee situation feels a bit awkward now after playing tWW without Crusader’s Reprieve. Losing the range on Rebuke has felt more noticeable than losing the range on Auto Attacks and Crusader Strike but the overall package just feels off.
  • Question: Has the thought and feel of playing with Jurisdiction and without Crusader’s Reprieve changed Blizzard’s perception on Ret Paladins at all? What’s working, what isn’t? What ranges are working, which ranges aren’t? Has Ret lost it’s identity somewhere in-between? etc


Holy vs Radiant

  • Feedback: The Radiant playstyle doesn’t feel or look unique enough to feel different than the Holy playstyle. =/
  • Questions:
    • Is there maybe a different style Holy Power finisher you want to add to make these builds feel a bit more distinct?
    • Are there any changes/improvements you’d like to make to Expurgation, Burning Crusade, Inquisitor’s Ire, Blade of Vengeance or Holy Flames, to better emphasize the Radiant Builds?
    • We see things like Defile completely change the spell of Death and Decay, could we see the same thing for any of the talents just listed above?

Middle of the Tree Layout

  • Feedback: The positioning of Wake of Ashes, and it’s empowering talents feels a bit sloppy. Wake of Ashes feels a bit forced and the talents that follow feel disconnected because of SoV.
  • Question: With Divine Wrath and Radiant Glory interacting the way they do, is there any chance the Middle of the Tree could see a slight rearrangement to feel more coherent and connected?

Final Reckoning/Execution Sentence

  • Feedback: These talents feel a bit underwhelming and lackluster for our on-use capstones.
  • Question: Will Divine Auxiliary and Executioner’s Will ever get updated? lol

Divine Toll vs Final Reckoning vs Searing Light vs Hammer of Light vs Divine Arbiter

  • Feedback: These abilities are all beginning to feel, look and sound the same. For these abilities being our capstones, there’s really nothing that distinguishes them for one another anymore. =/
  • Question: Is there any improvements or different types of abilities Blizzard would be interested in trying here? Maybe another crack at Divine Hammer? Or maybe a new combination of FR and ES that’s fun and interesting?

It’s just becoming extremely boring :frowning:

Templar vs Templar Strikes Theme

  • Feedback: This is a nerd take. But the theme and playstyle of “Templar” feels very contradictive to Templar Strikes/Slash. Templar also lacks a lot of that “Combination of Holy and Physical attacks” given in the description.

Playing Templar and Hammer of the Light feels very rushed. It doesn’t feel like that slow moving, hard hitting hero talent you’d expect from a Templar, but this GCD rushed/button mashing Shake the Heaven playstyle. =/

  • Question:
    • Are there any improvements Blizzard would like to do to make this feel a bit more consistent or to reemphasize that combination attack, appeal?
    • How does Blizzard feel like the WoA+Hammer of Light combo has played out?
    • Is there a better way to slow down and savor that combo feel? Better animations?
    • Is “Shake the Heavens” more important than Hammer of Light? and if so, is that a problem?

Herald of the Sun

  • Feedback: Overall been a pretty good experience, but Sun Avatar’s visual is very underwhelming and Radiant Glory being “meta” really kills the vibe of having those rays shine off the Paladin.
  • Question: I get the beams, but after playing it, it does feel a bit underwhelming, especially visually, and similar to the “Radiant Build” Dawnlights just feel like background debuffs and not highlights to the Hero Tree.

Immolate has a completely different feel than Incinerate, right? How do you capture that same distinction on a melee/mid range(?) Class? :sweat_smile:

3 Likes

My few cents on the class tree changes:

The 2-3 last rows are super mediocre and feel like they do almost the same thing “heal auto, heal judgement, heal blessing”, just like “alright guess I’ll put my point here then
”
Very boring and uninspired.

1 Like

Agreed with all of this

did anyone test in eye for an eye works with dots and if it has an ICD or smth?
seems to me that it will always be either undertuned or overtuned

perhaps it would be better if it was just a percentage reflect, and worked with divine protection and shield of vengeance instead of divine shield

Haven’t paladins reworked during beta? And now its have another rework there?
Any explanations on this changes??

There are a few that need to be addressed fast, in my humble opinion:

  • Seal of crusader is still irrelevant (or a rancorous class designer vengance?), if it’s not designed to have a healing base on percentage (base healing + atk/spell power scaling), it will be a waste of a talent always.

  • The core of the paladin talent now: divine steed related one. Why so much effort, space used, talent points spent into a movement ability? Is the best the whole dev team can do for a paladin? Put her into a normal mount? What is the “divine” about it? It doesn’t give you armor (armorless steed), doesn’t allow you to cast on movement during it’s duration, doesn’t give you a blink (horses can jump more than a human, you know?), just normal epic mount speed on indoors/combat. And now paladins needs to spend 4+ talents on that? And almost every talent with punishments, of course. It cannot be an advantage (Aman’Thul forsake that those sweaty-backs write something against a faster paladin
 (when the baby cry, isn’t always because he is suffering, can be a tantrum, life advice for free). Anyway, this is a big pushback to keep playing the class. Looks like a lack of effort and innovation, trying to make an old bad designed ability to be viable in a modern environment, instead of bringing something useful and fresh.

  • Sacred Strength / Divine Purpose: If SS is not buffed, DP will be nerfed to the ground, killing the mechanic of free HP spender. This, more than needing a review, it’s dangerous for the dynamism of the class. It can make the rotation slow and predictable as never before.

  • Lead the charge: that 3% movement speed, people. Careful there DH, you have competition now.

  • Holy Ritual: too low to be useful and leads to another useles “healing” talent. Feeling like I am forced to choose crap talents to have Lightbearer (again, punished for playing my class?, since when paladins sacrifice themselves to be useful?, too much J-RPG influence in a class that is completely designed different)

  • Light’s revocation: this will be the nightmare of the complaining community. It’s not OP (If there is OP to cast an immunity every 5 minutes, whole WoW needs to be reworked), but can lead to toxic gameplay (getting poisoned/cursed/etc just to pop bubble and get healed)

As a community, we will like an explanation about why this talents are implemented now and why the extreme emphasis on Divine Steed.

1 Like

Pvp talent Guardian of the Forgotten Queen is also still bugged for Prot pallys and simply does not work a majority of the time when it’s summoned. Been like this since beta of TWW.

The wording on it says it affects blessings you cast. So it won’t apply to An’she, dusk, or dawn (not casted), but should be applying to Summer (Blessed calling currently doesnt work with it).

1 Like

this would be really nice for the big mounted classes, I get class fantasy is one thing, but blocking raid visuals on the ground with my giant elekk isn’t fun for me or the rest of my team.

1 Like

A glyph that turns Divine Steed into a Light-skinned Sprint would be pretty sweet. (And I will forever lobby for a paladin class mount that’s just our wings, but that’s not a realistic ask.)

My wish list is to have a good reason to prioritize Avenger’s Shield over other abilities though
 :pensive:

2 Likes

Seal of Alacrity removed is 4% less haste and nerf to Judgement cd. Just buff Hammer of Wrath instead of a talent buffing it in a 35% less health window.

Wish it was the Holy Paladin Selfless Healer from MoP. Where Judgement gave a stack of Selfless Healer reducing mana, cast time, and buffing the heal of certain spells by x% per stack. Stacking up to 3 times.

I don’t mind Divine Steed but I can understand that Speed of Light was perfectly fine but you know “class fantasy”. What does trigger me as well is all the talents for Divine Steed.

I get what they are trying to do but Holy Avenger was a thing before but decided to throw it into Holy spec tree and call it Rising Sunlight. 2% is not enough especially when DP allows you to use another spender right away and be stronger.

3 Likes

Yeah, the Sacred Strength math isn’t working.

I was running some Mythic Shadowlands raids, and during all the bosses of Castle Nathria I got 550 Shield of the Righteous casts, of which 162 were Divine Purpose’d (probably; maybe I burned a few on other abilities, but I would’ve been spending them on SotR mostly). So that’s 388 regular Shields and 162 DP’d ones. With each DP’d Shield being 15% stronger, that adds up to the equivalent of 574 regular Shields (388 + 162*1.15). So not only did I cast 162 extra Shields because I picked DP (over the mere 388 I would’ve cast without it), I also did 48% more damage with SotR relative to what I would’ve done without it, and I got more uptime on my armor buff. We can maybe drop that down to like 40% if I assume I use Word of Glory without the Shining Light free cast a little bit.

I am sure there are other fuzzy factors to account for, but I feel like for Sacred Strength to make sense it needs to be not 2% but like
 30-50%.

Losing generator CDR from the removal of seal of order and losing raw haste from the removal of alacrity is really going to negatively affect prot paladin game play. Prot already required 35% + haste to feel playable and this is going to make that problem even worse. If these changes go through please add holy power back to avenger’s shield. Prot is going to need more resources to prevent the haste requirement getting even more out of hand.

4 Likes

Really glad to see a class tree redesign. Here’s some feedback:

  1. Crusader Aura added to Auras of the Resolute: great change.
  2. A Just Reward: I like the idea of a follow-up to Cleanse, but why not move the Holy PvP talent Cleanse the Weak here? Namely the part that increases the CD a bit but dispels a second target. I want something interesting and impactful, not a boring and likely to be undertuned heal.
  3. Turn Evil: situational CC shouldn’t cost two talent points. The base version should be a choice between Wrench Evil — instant and ST with a 30-yd range and 10-sec CD — and Stand Against Evil, a 1.5-sec cast that fears unlimited targets within a 25-yd cone, 30-sec CD.
  4. I like that Divine Toll was moved to the middle of the tree.
  5. Punishment and Faith’s Armor should be removed / reworked. They’re Prot talents in the class tree, and I don’t know if Prot even uses the latter.
  6. Golden Path should be brought back. I’m all for removing fluff Consecration talents, but this wasn’t one of those. It’s cool when Cons not only harms enemies but also helps allies.
  7. Divine Reach seems like a Holy talent, no? Prot and Ret have a stripped-down aura system, which is fine, but then you can’t add talents like this to the class tree. Well, I suppose it could have some use for Ret in battlegrounds.
  8. Improved BoP is a waste of a talent point. I suggest it be removed and Unbreakable Spirit be changed to the following: “Reduces the cooldowns of your Forbearance abilities by 30%.” (Divine Prot and SoV can have their baseline CDs reduced.)
  9. Holy Ritual should make blessings better at saving people. It should heal for a lot when the blessing is applied, and not at all when the blessing ends. I don’t think it should work with Blessing of Seasons because that’s a maintenance buff.
  10. Blessed Calling is useful if it stacks with other active speed buffs, but it’s hard to get excited over an Unbound Freedom / Echoing Blessings knockoff. It’s best when talents feel distinct.
  11. Empyreal Ward, Righteous Protection, Inspired Guard, Eye for an Eye, Selfless Healer, and Light’s Revocation all look cool.
  12. Of Dusk and Dawn: for Holy, Blessing of Dawn should only to apply Shield of the Righteous, and for Ret, only to Word of Glory. Both specs can be compensated for their loss elsewhere, but the point is to redesign Of Dusk and Dawn to a utility talent along the lines of Nature’s Vigil or Heart of the Wild, and from a passive talent to one that we might somewhat actively manage.
  13. I like Lightbearer, but if it doesn’t apply to my own healing then I’ll feel guilty when healing myself. This restriction also makes a class talent way better for Prot than the other two specs, and all but useless for Holy in m+ and arena.
  14. Seal of the Crusader should be renamed Seal of Light, and in the Ret tree, Zealot’s Fervor should be renamed Seal of the Crusader.

(Updated 9/10)

3 Likes

As someone who has always geared for Mastery & Versatility, I’ve never felt like Haste was required. I am sure it feels nice to press buttons, but I’ve never struggled in Heroic-esque tiers of content. I know guide writers love Haste, and I am trying it out this expansion, but the spec is absolutely playable without it - 100% uptime on Shield of the Righteous is nice, but far from required (at the tiers of play I play at).

That said, I agree that taking our fun toys away is going to feel bad.

Can we please keep Seal of Alacrity as either baked in to each spec or back in the spec tree somewhere.

Losing 4% haste will not feel good at all.

1 Like

Holy Class Tree:

Auras of the Resolute

  • Feedback: Again, it’s nice to see these auras baseline, but as Holy it does feel bad having to choose between Concentration Aura, and our “Raid Buff.” It’s a weird feeling, but it does feel like we have two dead buffs because our Raid Buff kindof blocks them, like losing the ability to press 2 of our totems
 if that makes sense?
  • Questions: Is there a possibility that all auras gain that 3% DR, and more power of the Aura is shifted into the paladin instead of the raid? IE: 3% DR+5% Silence Reduction for the party, +10% silence reduction for the Paladin?

Lay on Hands

  • Feedback: Similar to Ret, it just feels like it’s in a very weird spot right now. While it’s a very powerful ability, the strength and the cooldown just feels awkward compared to things like Nature’s Swiftness and even Holy Word: Serenity.
  • Questions:
    • With Fist of Justice being changed to not scale on Holy Power Spent, should Tirion’s Devotion also change? Is this a mechanic you’re trying to move away from due to high swings in Holy Power RNG/HotS Talents?
    • Why Tirion’s Devotion over say, Healing Hands? Is that not a better tuning talent and a better risk to reward type talent Paladins are kindof designed towards?
    • Again, how does the cooldown and strength fit into the overall paladin package compared to NS?

Hammer of Wrath

  • Feedback: Hammer of Wrath doesn’t feel as good to press as Necrolord’s Hammer did, with what it does and the visual it used. Visual felt more unique than Judgement 2.0. It also feels bad that you can spec into abilities that buff Hammer of Wrath in the Holy Tree without specing Hammer of Wrath in the Class Tree (Veneration, etc)
  • Questions:
    • I like Paladins getting all 3 top talents “baseline” – the overall feel of the tree feels better that way, but why is Divine Steed baseline for Holy and not Hammer of Wrath? Is it worth just giving all Paladins LoH, Devo and HoW?

Cleanse

  • Feedback: Cleanse and A just Reward are pretty decent niche spell, would be nice if Cleanse was a little more frequent or poisons and diseases weren’t so easily applied in PvP

  • Questions: Any chance at Cleansing Aura or Salvation Aura (Diablo2) :eyes:

Holy Ritual and Blessed Calling

  • Feedback: While these are cool flavor abilities for our spells, it does feel a bit concerning that Holy is getting too many misc Healing talents that they might find themselves sacrificing utility or QoL things just to stack this.
    • A Just Reward
    • Judgement of Light
    • Holy Ritual
    • Lightforged Blessing
    • Seal of the Crusader
    • Selfless Healer
    • Lightbearer
  • Question:
    • Is there any chance that maybe some of these could be changed for Holy to be DPS boosts? Maybe something like Lightsmith’s Scared Weapon?
    • Is there any interesting Class Perk/ability you’d like to incorporate in the form of new Seals? Not Classic copy pasted ones, but new, more modern ideas?

Divine Toll

  • Feedback: The positioning of this ability is so much better for being a Class Core Talent, but what Divine Toll actually does is still very lame for Ret and Holy

  • Question: Glimmer being removed is fine, idc about that, but removing it did remove quite a bit of the significance to Divine Toll casting Holy Shock. While there’s still some value to it, could Hpal see a different cooldown that’s a bit more unique, flashy or fun to press? =/

Capstones

  • Feedback: First impressions is that they feel very underwhelming, their positioning feels off and they really lack that “fun factor.”
    Light’s Revocation is pretty cool for a self heal, but the Forbearance aspect feels like a very long overdue QoL change, like we’re getting what others have baseline, sold as a capstone.

    If you PvP vs a Hunter and have them press Survival of the Fittest, Aspect of the Turtle and Exhilaration back to back, yes they used all their cooldowns, but they basically did want a Paladin wants to do, right?

    The actions they preformed were basically SoV → Bubble → LoH (numbers aside). Hunters, mages, warlocks, etc
 can all chain cooldowns back to back, why do I have to spend a capstone on it? As a player, that just feels bad. =/

  • Question: While I like what these capstones do, the hard question is;
    • Are these really capstone worthy talents? Would things like Lead the Charge be better suited for a capstone (trying not to be copy of Dragons >.>)
    • Or could more dead weight talents, like Holy Aegis and Obduracy be cut and Blizzard really give us some bangers for capstones? :smiley:

Holy Spec Tree:

1hander + Shield vs 2hander

  • Feedback: Obviously another dead horse topic, but getting 2h Int World Quest items, Dungeon Items, Vault Items, etc
 and leveling up through Legion with the Silver Hand and not being able to use SotR feels pretty bad.
  • Questions:
    • Any chance the weapon restriction on SotR could be removed soonℱ?
    • With tWW reminiscing a lot of that WC2/3 era, Uther with his 2hander and Libram was a big part of that, from a player perspective, was anything related to that on the table for Paladins?

Crusader Strike - Clunky Game play for caster Healer

  • Feedback: Something that’s really beneficial and convenient when you play other caster healers is making target of target macros for your DPS abilities. Being able to just smite whoever the tank is attacking is not the highest skill cap, but its just a nice QoL thing to have.

    Hitting Crusader Strike and swapping targets, or making sure you’re in range, etc
 can just feel a bit cumbersome at times.

  • Questions:
    • How do you feel about where Crusader Strike fits into the overall kit, what it does healing wise and the ease of use?
    • Is there any chance Crusader Strike could see a Class talent or maybe a Holy Spec talent to make it have a bit of a cleave effect like SotR and LoD?

Shinning Righteousness (SotR) vs Denounce

  • Feedback: Again, as a player, it’s very confusing why the melee vs caster builds aren’t really capitalized on, and this is just another one of those talent situations that make you scratch your head.
  • Questions:
    • I get not wanting to do the 20/20 melee vs caster talents
 but why not 4? Not to sound harsh, but who is this really benefiting here?
    • The difference between the “standard Paladin” and the “AC Paladin” is like 1-2 talents
 would adding 4-5 choices give the class more flavor? More dynamic fantasy and replayability?

Light of Dawn and Breaking Dawn

  • Feedback: Light of Dawn is a bit of an awkward ability, and Breaking Dawn isn’t ideal to spend 2 talents into, again it just feels like one of those QoL things everyone else has

  • Questions:
    • How do you feel like Light of Dawn fits into the overall Hpal toolkit?
    • Has there been any update on the thought of giving Paladin Holy Radiance as an option vs Light of Dawn, an upgrade or a replacement?
    • LoD was cool as a Necrolord Proc, but since then it’s been pretty lack luster, any chance for this ability to be revisited soon?

Tyr’s Deliverance and Power of the Silverhand

  • Feedback: What a wild ride of a talent
 but again, this kindof leads into the question of the melee vs caster and what the goals are for Hpal.
  • Questions:
    • How are these 10 year old designs working for modern day WoW? :sweat_smile: (sorry lol)

    • If you had to change Tyr’s and Power of the Silverhand into 2hander melee HPal talents, what would they look like?

    • If you had to change Tyr’s, or make it share a choice node with something like Blessing of Light, tying into the Class Tree
 what would that look like?

    • Do you think any Yrel, Reinhardt, or any other Blizzard IP ability could work here?

    • Dream Flight is a really cool and interactive Healer Capstone, any chance HPal could see something of that same level that mixes up healing and makes Holy more interactive?

Blessing of Seasons

  • Feedback: Another dead horse topic, it’s not a great ability. It feels bad being a rotational ability and not having the freedom and choice to use your cooldowns when they are truly needed. IE: Winter
  • Questions: Any chance for a revamp? (And name change, lol)

Don’t get me wrong, overall Hpal is beginning to feel a lot better design wise, just figured I’d give some feedback. Thanks for the hard work you all have been putting into Paladins.

2 Likes

Hey blizzard can we get clarity om the ret changes? Crsade doesnt work and consecrated ground still appears on both spec and class tree.

The datamined changes mentioned you removing crusade and the class getting sanctified wrath with effects per spec. We need to see the spec changes for ret

Also ret is losing armor and cd reduction from seal of order, loh lost its cd reduction mechanic too. Can we get some communication m

Also please dont reduce the cd on repentance. Ret would fall in the same basket feral is right now of having to play precognition and just fish for kicks to land cc. Ret is not feral, ret has nowhere near the mobility or tools feral has to just cyclone at will. We dont need that kind of gameplay. It sucks for real and will suck 1000 times more for ret


Lastly PLEASE REMOVE THE 50% PVP NERF TO DIVINE PROTECTION. WHY DOES RET HAVE TO PLAY WITH THE WEAKEST WALL OF THE ENTIRE GAME?

4 Likes

The auto-sac is just bad. It’s counter to what makes sac a strong defensive.

2 Likes

They are adding talents for the lazy. Sacving someone at 35% is not good either. Sac is meant to be used quite high to pre damage and cc.

Auto sac is a waste of a talent point and its a trap.

Ret healing on autos needs to apply to the ret itself too. HoW 2point node needs to baked into HoW. Its damage is too low and “exexuting” someone for 250k in pvp combat is nothing. Herald has a way stronger HoW when templsr is the one that wants to cast as many hammers due to shake the heavens extension. So templar needs something else to beef up HoW.

Id suggest either buffing HoW and nerfing the herald proc, or add an interaction for templar

-when hammer of wrath deals damage, it drops an empyrean hammer (or two or three) on your target. (This would play into endless wrath)
-when hammer of wrath deals damage, it adds a stacking buff that increases the damage of your next hammer of light

Ret as a whole needs HoW to apply highlords judgement at the very least bellow 35%. This is more of a qol change

2 Likes

100%. I don’t really get a lot of these 11.0.5 changes. It’s almost like the “B” team is managing them.

The RDruid “rework” is pretty crap, except for a single talent where they are adding DPS → healing changes. They are even putting 2 charges of Nature’s Swiftness, which is just unforgivable IMO.

Nature’s Swiftness does not fit into modern wow. It’s a relic of a game that existed 15 years ago, and it’s just being kept around as a bandaid for poor spec design. The fact that they are increasing the charges should be a “smell” to them - something that tell them that this fix is exposing an underlying issue with how the healing kit of that spec is designed.