Unhinged behaviour on these forums (as one would expect, though).
Anyone who actually has raided 10 man understands that the loot rate is an issue and will lead to burnout.
Forcing people who actually want to see loot progression in their preferred raid size with a closer group of friends to raid 25 man will only lead to further burnout.
But classic andies actually can’t see how game design has developed to actually respect player time and the concept of “fun”. Classic andies can’t see why raiding with 14-24 strangers might not be less “fun” than raiding only with friends.
Lmao. So true. Such an inane argument given that many 10 man fights are actually less forgiving than their 25 man counterpart. Further, the argument completely misses the point of 10 man raiders actually wanting to raid 10 man.
We’re just disappointed with loot progression in 10 man as it is starting to feel like it’s artificially holding us back from meaningful output improvements that will lower raid clear times and make people have more fun.
25 man drops more loot per player. But the real benefit is that you see a wider variety of items.
But again it’s the same zero sum game argument. Increase the loot or whatever incentives are necessary for 25 man. The point is 10 man progression is glacial.
I implore you to try progressing 10 man only in Firelands and then provide your feedback on how appropriate the loot is.
The status quo defenders just can’t conceptualize making the game more fun for another set of players with tight nit groups of friends on this faster patch cadence.
they can, it would just make it less fun for other people who are doing more by doing 25 mans, adding a straight +1 item only shifts the power from one to the other
Which again is why I have repeatedly said buff 25 man appropriately if necessary. Give 25 man players a title, mount, gold per kill, a halo, angelic wings, etc. We don’t need parity, we’re just asking for a small increase in gearing by 10 mans.
The rate of 10 man loot acquisition is extremely slow if you only do 10 man.
I implore you to try and progress only 10 man in Firelands and report back.
I’m a 25H raider but 100% agree with your sentiment here – each player in 25 is 4% of your raid force – whereas in 10 it’s 10%. Having anyone die in 10 is so much more painful than in 25… let alone if that person that died was your brezzer so you’re just 10% weaker the rest of the fight.
Then there’s the raid comp issues – I suspect fights like Nefarian are really difficult on 10H to have the right comp compared to others. I imagine it requires minimum of 3 healers on that one. In general the same fights on 10/25 aren’t inherently easier one way or another but rather fight-specific largely due to the design of it.
I’m not a 10 raider but def. think 10 should be getting baseline 3 item loot - especially with condensed phases. I don’t find 10 raiding appealing; doesn’t feel epic enough to me so I’ll always seek out a 25 experience.
I know others mentioned this as well, but having the same pool of items and seeing less of them also just makes every item rarer comparatively. 25 sometimes has the same issues with dupe items (like 3x Incineratus seems to be a 25H Magmaw speciality). In the end they’re all just Maelstrom Crystals anyway.
I agree it seems like 10 man are getting screwed with loot - especially when considering condensed phases.
Lmao the continuous elitism about solved content is hilarious.
Borrowing from someone on reddit:
I wouldn’t waste your time. He seems to think 25m is significantly harder than 10m, which anyone who’s raided both will tell you is not true at all. SOME fights are harder on 25, usually if space is a big concern, otherwise it’s easier in basically every respect (more healer/dps cds, easier ability to cover every buff, 3 battle rezzes nullifying multiple mistakes, lower impact of bad players/deaths, vastly superior gearing progression, etc).
Mate, we get it, you’re an elite 25 man raider. You can have all the accolades and more loot. We just want a paltry increase to 10 man so the gearing process isn’t orders of magnitude slower than 25 man.
Trust me, it won’t affect your idyllic 25 man raiding world facing the hardest content of all time that surely makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside when you clear it.
Doing both and in my experience 10m is much harder in terms of personal responsibility. But thats about it. If you take the same exact 25m people doing 10m, 10m will be easier. However the world isn’t like that. One dead weight in 10m means a lot more.
