It seems like more character assassination for Shandris, where she goes and gets consoled from someone other than her own people, like Keeshan, taking Anduin’s side over Tyrande, and now despite the 4 year time skip it seems like she hasn’t even spoken to Tyrande since she has been back about her feelings and needs an undead that worked for Sylvanas and the help of an undead night elf who worked to continue the genocide of the night elves and now works for the horde.
It feels like the writers just see Shandris and think she is some weak naive little girl, and always write her that way, instead of the 10,000 year old battle hardened general she is. Maybe it’s because they think she looks cutesy that they need to write her in such a demeaning way for the character.
by the end of BfA and a bit of SL it was clear that nelves don’t want to be buddies with Horde and especially Forsaken.
Then DF comes, and they flip 180 degrees.
Now we’re all friends! Let’s have a hug and talk about feelings once again. Conflict and war is bad, mkay?
I can’t… hahah…
But yeah I agree that Shandris writing had been awful even back in BfA.
It’s not just Shandris. Delaryn Summermoon also gave impression to be scared little squirrel instead of proper sentinel.
Back in the day, when you played Horde Night elves used to be respectable enemies. Now you feel constantly sorry for them and pity for them.
What would the point of a character assassination be?
That seems like the collateral damage from whatever they were trying to accomplish.
Maybe there is more content yet to be revealed. But so far this doesn’t seem like a Horde apology and their gesture for a “renewal” theme story piece. So what is it supposed to be?
My only other theory this is the beginings of a new cross-faction romance or close friendship like Baine and Andiun.
You thought that in WC3 nelves weren’t impressive faction?
In Classic I still remember how nelves didn’t allow humans to press forward Merithra’s post into their territories. In TBC they had a base in blades edge mountains and were active via CC.
In Wotlk they didn’t have much spotlight trye but still had their champions present like in argent tournament.
In Cata - as you describe they were hit all around but they still pressed forward no? On Horde side nelves are viciously attacking in both Azshara and Ashenvale. And they defeated Firelord. That is one impressive feat.
In MoP - I guess this is where their decline started with them acknowledging Varian as their superior. But ubtil that point I think their depiction was quite solid.
They still have smaller victories, they managed to drive the hord back from Darkshore and Ashenvale mostly by themselves and gilnean forces led by Maiev, while the major forces of the alliance were dealing with other fronts.
If we go to outcasts and non affiliated, the legion was defeated mostly because of Illidan, who is still a night elf (a demon one, but still).
I think is just that the war of thorns left a sour taste for most night elf players compared to all events. But even then, Malfurion was whooping Sylvanas 1v1 until Saurfang interfered.
To me they are still my favorite race/group, and honestly, recent events dont change that for me.
in vanilla there was not much but there were certainly other races in Ashenvale and teldrassil. The xenophobia thing is over played by some people.
We are talking about the Horde’s attitude towards NEs, idk why Firelands matters.
If the Night Elves were that vicious they would be occupying horde territory, not failing to defend theirs.
The decline started far before.
The Night Elves have been the punching bags of the Warcraft writers for years. Even when its not a faction war thing they get into trouble so I am going to push back on “Least better than most could ask for”… what a stupid thing to say…
Key thing to remember that the Horde frontage for this is Lillian Voss, who’s always been shown to be one of the more decent leaders of the Forsaken.
And Delaryn is still a Night Elf in upbringing. The fact that she’s part of Voss’s effort seems to indicate that she’s walked back from the nihilism she exhibited in Darkshore.
Wow, this insight makes the new addition to the lore way more sensible and interesting actually, consider me convinced! I’m as easy going as night elves are!
She’s a night elf so they need to show her as incompetent and weak, that is why they do things like this. But you can see it’s also because they are trying to speed run the forgiveness thing without any actual effort and it’s more about trying to chide the night elves for being upset.
Shandris Feathermoon says: I have been living with these memories for eons. I don’t know a life without them haunting my mind.
Lilian Voss says: Someone told me that we all have pieces of our past that haunt us. But we’re working towards a better future–together.
Shandris Feathermoon says: I… Would like that.
That and how they are leaning into “renewal” over vengeance theme, they just want to forget that it happened and they are telling the night elves to move on instantly, or be evil and killed like the new druids of the flame. This also isn’t something she could talk to an ancient or wise night elf about as shandris was just afk for the timeskip since Tyrande got back, she needs to go to someone who worked for Sylvanas and continued to work for her during and after the genocide. It’s actually so disgusting.
I have to say, you have totally undercut some reasonable points with over-the-top faction narratives.
Blizzard has made it clear the Sylvanas destroyed Teldrasil and she hid what she was doing from the Horde. (She even thought she was “setting us all free” To say it was a “hissy fit” and that the Horde is to blame isn’t going to get you anywhere except with the Alliance fanatics. (And I know you are all going to post you meme yet_again. Whatever. Don’t care.). People who already agree with you. You are wasting your time there.
I don’t care where the tree goes. I don’t really disagree with your desires for the location. But you managed to alienate a lot people who might agree with you with the “Horde needs to pay for its crimes” junk.
You can make points most people will consider worth thinks about. Or you can push a “Horde Evil” narrative. But trying to do both isn’t working.
I mean… I don’t want yet another faction war and to keep this endless cycle of who’s gonna strike next but even if the Horde didn’t know about the entire plan, they still were more than happy to end the night elves just for the little chance Alliance might pose some fraction of danger in the distant future.
The tree wouldn’t have burned if it was only Sylvanas, horde shaman there were increasing the winds to spread the fire faster so they could kill more civilians faster. The continued to fight for her afterwards as well as continued to kill more night elves in darkshore as well as attacking Azuremyst because refugees were fleeing there as well. To say the horde had nothing to do with the burning and the continued occupation and genocide of night elves afterwards makes you an entirely unreasonable person, trying to pin everything just on one person, when it took an entire faction working together to make it happen.
I am not sure I see incompetent or weak but more like tired, exhausted, defeated and demoralized is the better terms that come to my mind.
I guess they are really trying to show how sad and vulnerable the Night Elves are in addition to how rage, wrath and vengeance hurt your loved ones more than intended.
I get it, I do. But what bothers me is that its this depression train is totally one sided.
Why isn’t Lilian there to also share her part in Shandris’ pain?
As one of the leaders of the Forsaken why isn’t she there as an apology on behalf of her people? Afterall in BFA they were blighting Darkshore and killing and raising dead victims out of pure malice. Why is there no mention of this?
Why is Lilian there like some sort of shrink with a helping hand as if they have nothing to do with the pain Shandris is going through?
Yes I get that, my problem is the Horde has a role to play in this too.
Its not just the Night Elves trying to get a renewal but also the Horde.
Its the absurd one sidedness of these dialogues that bothers me. I have made my peace with the context of it.
Shandris, the 10,000 year old general, is shown here as weak and pathetic here while needing to confide in one of Sylvanas’ generals, because there was no other night elf she could talk to in all that time. They aren’t really showing the wrath part, much like during the WoT you had night elves flopping over saying “I just wanted to protect my home” etc. They never really show them as fierce or wrathful other than Tyrande, who had the ultimatum of letting sylvanas live or dying herself.
That’s because the only consoling that can be found is from the horde side, there is no one in the alliance who can really help Shandris out, because they are all too stupid, definitely not from Tyrande or anyone else in those 4+ years after the shadowlands. The theme from the night warrior to the new druids of the flame is either forgive or die, but only for the night elves, the horde is shown to be blameless and they are there to offer words of wisdom to help the people they nearly wiped out, while they continue to invade Ashenvale.
The writers don’t see it as a problem for the horde, only a problem for the night elves who need to stop being angry about a genocide that happened a few years ago. Of course it’s one sided, this is about teaching the night elves they either need to forgive and be best friends with the people who murdered them, and quickly, or they will die like the new druids of the flame are going to die.
I was just giving example of why I think they were portrayed in a more interesting way… They were proud and distrustful of their allies. It’s more interesting than “everybody is welcome tee hee, we got food and drinks to share too!”
Firelands matter because it shows their resilience. Regnaros is not an easy enemy and it was mostly Nelves with the small aid of Tauren that successfully defeated him. Why do you want to take that away from them?
As for “Taking horde territories” they did Torch Splintertreepost, Warsong Lumber camp is infested with them. Azshara which was meant to be Horde territory in Cata is also has a heavy presence. You could tell they were active and vicious, that they were not pushovers.
And let’s not forget about the Shatterpsear tribe, which nelves intended to completely wipe out (no exceptions for kids), just typically round them up and execute them all. It’s a miracle that any survived afterward.
Like where exactly?
EVERYBODY encountered troubles Smallioz. Not just Nelves. And Trolls would still have a word with them for the title of biggest punching bags. Losing prominent characters left and right and their cities constantly raided.
in TBC and WotLK they didn’t encounter any real troubles. In Cataclysm they were hit by Firelands and Horde but were successful against the odds.
Imo the only truly unfortunate thing was that in MoP they were reduced to Varian’s subordinates and BfA onwards plot. But their beginnings were pretty solid. And I tell you that when I played on the other side I saw them as cool antagonists. They were strong, resilient, and vicious which is a good characteristic of an enemy.
Not a crybaby that talks about their feelings all the time and scaredycats. Now, THAT is pathetic. And that would indeed turn them into a joke race.
I like how she making an unusual friendship and opening up to said friend is seen as the biggest crime.
The argument that she should be a 10 thousand years old general and is portrayed as weak also is beyond me, the last 20 years have been more eventful than anything between the Wota and WC3, Tyrande has her own burdens, so makes sense shandris would not want to bother her foster mother at this point, Shandris probably met Lilian in the talks between forsaken and Night elves to accept the darkfallen night elves that wished to rejoin the alliance.
Yeah, Teldrassil burning was a terrible plotline and they can’t realisticaly write the horde paying back in the same measure, it sucks but is reality.
