10.2 - Guardians of the Dream

Lore Story Forum
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The whole bit of Lilian Voss being there is extremely forced, and the text of the questline is also very weird, sort of hinting at racism in a way. By this point the elves dont hate the Forsaken for being undead…any hate or distrust to the Forsaken is due to what they have done. And 4 dark rangers being present, even saying that they cant feel a thing when visiting the realm the elves have protected for over 10000 years, wont fix the many years they followed Sylvanas to a fanatical degree.

Understandably they want to start building bridges but the taurens are right outside in the Ohn’aran plains. They represent a far better image of help to assist the elves with the new tree. Because yes, the horde needs to be shown helping the elves somehow if some level of neutrality is being attempted. The forsaken could have showed up later, not to mention that out of nowhere Shandris and Voss are now BFFs? What? When? How? and more importantly… Why? Its so out of character for her…

Instead of forcing this idea of acceptance towards the forsaken and undead… how about a proper story about how Tyrande and Malfurion havent had a son/daughter? If wanted, have Tyrande admitting she doesnt see herself as a mother and that she is a warrior first, that the only daughter she has/needs is Shandris regardless of blood. Pick up on the previous thread that was left out during Shadowlands. Which would bring peace to her worries about failing her people. Shandris is such a good character but she continues to play out the support role most of the time and be extremely overshadowed by Tyrande, which is already bad enough as Tyrande is made fun continuously by the community because of how poorly written she has been through WoW’s history and showing zero good character development.

The constant push of having the elves simply forgive and forget about Teldrassil is just an insult to the players and to the characters and story behind them. Its ok to want “renewal” but make it more bearable by having those that caused the harm be part of it.

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143

Celestine of the Harvest is in the Dragon Isles for the Dreamsurge event, so I hope she and other worgen druids are present for 10.2’s story as well.

Since this is more of a druid-heavy patch, I’d prefer rather than faction troops, to see each of the faction’s racial druidic groups represented: have the Harvest Witches, Zandalari Warduids, and other established organizations show up and make their views known, and allow the less-known groups like Darkspear druids and Kul Tiran druids to have more time to get fleshed out.

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144

It’s not the elves but the dream “denizens” who show this mistrust… which makes sense because they are undead, while the Emerald Dream probably doesn’t take well to necromancy. The elves don’t have any reaction to them so far, besides Shandris with Voss.

Only Delaryn says this, and she seems to be the only night elf dark ranger present. I assume she will have a reunion with the spirit of Ferryn when the tree is done.

There are also some tauren and Zandalari druids present.

What? This is so obtuse and unnecessary. Though I agree the Voss “friendship” is forced.
But maybe Voss is just good at this stuff… after the Forsaken

Shandris seems to struggle with this in a way, as she feels powerless, according to her journal, and of little significance, having watched things always fall before her. But this isn’t fully true… at Feathermoon she led most of the people to safety and even got a blessing from Elune to save her from a naga force.

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I think this kinda falls apart when we have Tyrande’s Army of the Black Moon right there in the upcoming zone. It’s understandable why they’d be put there, but that is undeniably an alliance military force.

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The army of the black moon isn’t an alliance force. It formed after the Alliance gave Tyrande a cold shoulder as they were too preoccupied with claiming Strom as a Stormwind protectorate.

Interestingly the name has shifted in 10.2 as well. They are called the army of the new moon, which aligns with a tidbit of lore from the exploring kalimdor book on how Elune has different aspects and types of avatar based on lunar phases—Tyrande is the aspect of the new moon aka the night warrior.

And Amirdrassil is their bespoke home, so it be odd if the Kaldorei did not seen their own forces to defend their future home.

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147

How bout them EAGLES WOOOOO

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The Alliance was busy protecting its home front. The entire point is if the Horde had captured Arathi, they could literally attack the rest of the Alliance homeland, homeland that so happened to have the remaining night elf civilian population living in it.(heck, one of the first Alliance bases they would be able to attack would be a night elven one.

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I don’t see a worthwhile distinction in saying they’re not an alliance force just because they’re made up of night elves. The race hasn’t left the alliance, regardless of how much Tyrande’s written to be ghosting Anduin. They’re a military presence of an alliance race that just happens to be led by her instead of someone else. I think that’s all that matters.

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150

Not really?.. the Alliance only has forces a member pledges to them. They are not like the Horde where all forces are horde forces because they are basically one unified force under a single banner for mutual protection. That Tyrande basically told Anduin to go suck an egg and went off to do things herself is a good example of how limited the alliance leadership is in its ability to censor its member states who refuse to go along with their plans.

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151

Which bugs me - Teldrassil wasn’t the capital because night elves need to live in a giant tree. It was the capital because they wanted to keep an eye on the sacrilege Fandral had done and make sure the tree turned out okay. I’m okay with Amirdrassil becoming their new home (treehouses are awesome, after all)… but not with (appearing to be) abandoning Kalimdor to do so.

That’s why I’d like to have Loti and the Zandalari wardruids be there in force, too. With Gonk.

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152

On another note, I had a realization. So the emerald dream is an Azeroth that never sundered right? That means as there is ocean west of the dragon isles in the Dream it was 100% never part of old Kalimdor.

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153

I think it would be fair to argue that the only reason that’s not the case is because of lack of attention to detail/gameplay purposes or just choosing to not address it, we could also be missing information from cinematics or prior quests. Do you think that the Teldrassil survivors present in the area would just welcome them like nothing has happened?

My guess is they want to give closure to all of her issues and actions after being risen, give her some level of peace, “whats done is done just look forward now”. Seeing what Ferryn says or how he acts towards her now would be interesting though.

Not saying that she needs to have a 1 on 1 with Malfurion about it or something like that lol, but the topic was discussed by some back in SL when people feared she would die. It is simply an example to create an hyperbole of all the possible routes they can have the relationship between Tyrande and Shandris go. Usually when they are together it can be felt in a way how Shandris is looking for Tyrande’s approval. To show her and herself that she is capable. Yes, she is meant to be her shadow and protect her, but if we even get the journal bits as a way to shed some light into her struggles I think its fair to say that perhaps she should stand on her own now and that could very well be all she needs to do so.

Personally I would much rather have that happen because of Tyrande and a mother/daughter thing and not from a very random event with Voss who seemingly came out of nowhere. All of this if that is the intent for the character of course. We dont know that.

Yes, there are denizen druids of all the races that can be one, but Im talking about Baine and company, considering they settled down there and that could lead to a considerable amount of tauren remaining in the dragon isles, you would imagine they want to involve themselves with their neighbors the green dragons.

On another topic, it would be imagined that many more named druids will show up to defend the tree and the Dream. Now I may have missed seeing them but if I have its because they dont have any prominent position so far in the PTR. The area in general seems missing the “extra flavor” that gets added later on, just have to be patient maybe?.

I think its understandably a given that Malfurion has/will show up, it would be a crime not to do it so he is not part of this. But you get the quest from Hamuul and then nothing else from him.
Broll? Zen’tabra? Koda? Thisalee? Even Zen’kiki! And so many others, practically just grab the druid sanctuary and bring half of them over!

I dunno if its too much to ask that we get a full blown out all wild gods, all characters mega extra hard druid lore dump for a patch as opposed to a main system of an expansion that the Dreamgrove was part of. Certainly would be nice!

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Voss and the undead elves are supposed to be mistrusted purely on the basis of them being undead. It’s at the heart of their race fantasy. If anything, it needs to be extended to death knights as a whole as well.

Probably demon hunters too, come to think of it.

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155

Or that the Forsaken are being paranoid. That the people of Azeroth have learned to tolerate the undead.

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The dryads and whatnot don’t act that way with anyone but the dark rangers, Voss, and apparently only forsaken horde players so I’d say the paranoia suggestion is false in this case.

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157

Blue Dragons… 4th Season…

Seems my theory of Vyranoth being the First Winter Queen, a First One and that the First Ones are Dragons and that Malygos and Sindragosa will become the new Winter King and Queen is looking likely to be correct.

Now let’s get back to my theory about how the 5 Dragon Aspects and 5 Old Gods were originally planned to be the same thing during WC3 and how GW2 appropriated the plan for itself.

Calling it now: Dragonlands(true form of the Shadowlands) is going to be the Next Expansion and it will feature the Dragonvoid Plot that GW2 had.

The whole “It is your time to go to the Afterlife” will infact be a whole “The Void must be extracted from your Soul before you taint the World of the Living” thing.

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Just by existing, the undead are fundamentally opposed in nature to the Dream; They are aberrations which linger outside the cycle of life and death entirely. It be weird if the denizens of the dream didn’t feel like that about them.

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Then let me correct myself, no one, at least of the playable races, truly care. Most of the Alliance have literally had to deal with people worse/equal to the forsaken in terms of notoriety and have managed to overcome such prejudice.

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The Kaldorei likely do care, out of all of them. They didn’t really ever accept the DKs either, and the DHs were only grudgingly tolerated because of the whole legion deal and then never brought up.

And given what the forsaken did to them in the war of thorns they have some serious justification for not liking the undead anyways.

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While Malfurion was worried about the Demon Hunters, Tyrande herself vouched for them, so the Demon Hunters are probably fine.

I can’t think of any Night Elf Death Knights that really stand out anywhere, though.

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