10.1 behind the doors, where are rogue changes?

Classes Rogue
1

Honestly, we are two weeks away from the new Patch, and there are little to zero changes to rogues.

All I see is that every single class are receiving multiple buffs and changes and rogues get what ? CC nerfs across the board, two stupid PvP talent changes, where only one of them are good?

Are we gonna stay D tier for another season, because right now it’s unbelievable how blizz make rogues from A tier to D tier in one patch.

Let me do a quick recap of changes in 10.1

Nerfs to CC and especially blind on 5 sec, intended to not being able to get sap of will result in:

Rogue in RBG - nonexistant. One of the main reasons rogues got invited into RBG was ninja capping flags.

Rogues in 2v2 - dead bracket without cc, 4 sec kidney on every player rerolled ORC, why even bother play double dps comps in 2v2.

Rogues in 3v3. Already non existant since 10.0.7, Both Outlaw and Sub extinct, except some Destro/assa or Arcane/assa teams, rogues are literally garbage into Ret/war/demo/frost meta which will probably continue in 10.1.

You can’t expect to remove main part of the Rogue class (which was always CC) and left everything else same as before, thinking its ok, ITS NOT!

Nerfs to Kick from 5 to 3 seconds. Why even bother using kick in 10.1 where every single caster will have Precognition by default. Why risking that you’ll give them 5 seconds immunity and 15% damage increase(haste) with 3 seconds kick? Why its not reduced to 4 seconds, since its melee range kick while lock/mages still has 5 seconds?

I agree, that being interrupted by 2 melee apes together strong, sitting on you 24/7 is annoying, but precognition as it is right now is such Toxic ability. I agree to give them kick immunity for 5 seconds after fake cast, but also having 5 seconds CC immunity and 15% haste on top of that, while every class gets their interrupt nerfed is just TOO MUCH.

Also tier set sucks - Both 2p/4p bonuses and stat diversity, having haste on 3/5 items while haste is the least stat for rogue is ridiculous.

Either Remove the Blind/Sap nerf or buff rogues damage by 100% across all specs, because without CC, PvP will become only ZUG ZUG STUPID FIESTA!

I know some people are happy about those changes, especially shaman players whinning every expansion on rogues, yes talking to you Cdew. But you should realize that CC is part of the PvP, and without CC, its just PVE rotation all day and nothing else.

16 Likes
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The kicker is that everyone getting a 25% HP boost along with higher item level gear means people having over 1 million HP along with insane heals will be the norm while Rogues will still be pitifully hitting 20k Shadowstrikes.

Rogues are the actual single worst scaling class this entire expansion.

13 Likes
3

WW monk would like to have a word… I play both of these classes… sigh.

3 Likes
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Why is that so unbelievable? It happens every expansion. Rogues start out strong. Then, via nerfs to rogues, buff to other classes and poor scaling, we slowly get pushed to the bottom.

What would be truly unbelievable is rogues starting strong and remaining strong throughout the entire expansion.

#RoguesCantHaveNiceThings

5 Likes
5

Reduction in cc and interrupts arent ever being reverted. Pve kids got their way. Damage on rogues probably wont be buffed and Subtlety will be a forgotten spec until 11.0.

Ptr with full gear I observed

  • strike still does 22-26k
  • eviscerate does 45k
  • backstab is around 17k and a joke gloom was not much better

Revert us to wod rogue already. Dance cdr and secret technique made everything in our kit irrelevant.

  • could at least remove danse macabre or dark shadow since they do the same thing and roll it back into the base part of our class till a redesign happens. We are the demo locks of wod atm till they were redone in legion.
10 Likes
6

is this about pvp?

1 Like
7

I hate playing against WW, but I feel for you guys.

2 Likes
8

But, but… oUtlAw rOgUeS aRe ovEr perFoRminG!

Or so I’m told.

3 Likes
9

While making some classes C/B tier into S+++ in a patch and then continuously buffing those classes or nerfing things that dont even take them down a notch. I’ve never seen a company launch so many tunings that just dont bring balance at all but instead ALWAYS makes it worse lol. It’s like that is their GOAL, to tune things to make things worse to troll the players

1 Like
10

I can’t find the quote but it was in one of our recent tunings where they said some jazz around the lines of (loosely quoting) “rogues are performing higher than we intended them to be/ want them to be” It was when they triple nerfed all 3 of us a few weeks ago.

This implies there is a ridiculous tax on us and they know it and do not care, nerfed all cc yes but it hurts us the most so nerds got their way, gave no mechanical changes (who gives a fish about buffs when the abilities and tool kit hit low af).

Ain’t looking good boys, the falling moon of majora’s mask is upon us.

6 Likes
11

Roguebwas primarily a Cc bot with burst windows.
With 19.1 everything changes.
Cc nerfs
Damage already nerfed and we do some of the lowest damage in pvp in the game
Our defensive toolkit is lackluster in today’s version of the game (exception being WW)

So we no longer kill in burst windows, we can no longer be a Cc bot to nerf and we are the 2nd worse punching bag in arena.

With no buffs to damage rogue will be a dead class and no one will want to take them over any other class in the game.
If something doesn’t change prior to 10.1 I’ll probs be unsubbing for the first time since vanilla. I’ve tried alts and just don’t get anywhere near as much enjoyment playing them as I do rogue and I refuse to change to the meta classes.

Futures looking grim fellow rogue friends

11 Likes
12

I’m afraid with 10.1 we are returning back to Legion and to Celestalon’s garbage class fantasy era, where all of our cc was removed or split between all specs, and the only thing that left was doing mindless damage.

Atleast we had the damage back then, but, despite the damage it was the worst design decision ever made back then to remove cc from rogue class.

8 Likes
13

We dont even have that. We have -maybe- 10 seconds of uptime of burst damage per minute-1.5 minutes and we can be CC’ed through it, even with the CC nerfs coming through. Whatever dev is THIS butthurt needs to go find another game to ruin, or someone needs to grow some balls at Blizzard and stop letting this nonsense happen. It’s going to be the only way we start to become decent again. Makes want to roll a brainless zugzug warrior lol

7 Likes
14

Same here man. Nothing else comes close to the feeling of playing rogue. Unless something changes, all rogue specs are looking to be completely unviable in pvp. Problem is, at this point, I think Blizzard wants it this way. People have been crying about rogue for so long, and Blizzard seems to finally be catering to them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Blizzard was doing this deliberately to make rogue the worst class in pvp. They want us out of the meta for a while. Maybe in a few seasons or next expac they will decide we have paid our dues and rework us to be relevant again.

I’ve already canceled my sub. I’ll keep fighting for changes on the forums while I wait for my game time to run out. But I won’t be coming back until Blizzard does something for rogues. I’m not paying $15 a month to struggle on a useless class that can’t get into groups.

This is an RPG. No class should ever be made to feel useless.

11 Likes
15

Peep this graph. Demonstrates rogues are reliant on cc and we can use solo shuffle as a “you’re on your own” type experience.

Subtlety in particular is extra trash because it relies on very specific win conditions.

  • Idc if dance has to completely go away or if kidney needs to be a 45 sec cd. Make rogues do damage or all of us will be non existent soon.
  • idc if abilities need to cost more

No reason at all rogues should be like this. Return us to wod literally copy paste man.

I only rogue with no other characters/ classes. All ive done since ol tbc when I started. I hope they remove gimmicks soon and make our class actually do damage.

“You guys have so much cc”

  • hunters do w various functions
  • druids do with nearly identical cds (no one gets on them)
  • dh has 3 stuns , 2 evasions, netherwalk to immune everyone

These classes listed are allowed to have both sustain and burst while also a large amount of cc. The arguments to why rogue isn’t allowed to rogue is irrelevant.

7 Likes
16

Only spec that can have everything is assassination

  • garrote / gouge / dance / fw
  • has no windows and does whatever it wants

Combat and Subtlety are far too reliant. Time to unprune more and rogues just need to make choices on expanding our kit.

They have to stop saying “you’re this rogue and only do this” same w rhe community.

Can’t be a burst donkey and cheese because “that’s what we do”. Subtlety has been a disaster ever since legion. Reliant on gimmicks and “good ideas”.

Assassination is a goofy feral druid now with no hard envenoms

Combat is a cosplaying outlaw who also lost itself in all of this mess

They were too busy trying to make us different rather than emphasizing the whole rogue kit. Last to be developed, last to be cared about at any time.

They had the master template from cata up to wod and could have picked the best of that instead of trashing rogues across the board trying to be cool.

3 Likes
17

We havent had any real changes in about 3 months. Our class doesnt even come up on the patch notes and when you look at the PTR forums, you’ll see blizzard ask for feedback for every class except one class. Rogues.

I’m not sure why. It’s like they have forgotten us

9 Likes
18

I never played WOD but I keep hearing about WOD rogues. Can you describe what it was like?

3 Likes
19

Well hopefully in time this means rogues will get buffs in other ways. Once they see rogues number in single digits and in last place, there will be a discussion in how to improve them. That will come in the form of more dps, or more survivability or both.

3 Likes
20

Cataclysm rogue but at its full development.
Finishers that actually matter, ambushes mattered, backstab + hemo for subtlety w sanguinary vein. Combat was filthy and hit hard. Assassination had a full and wasnt a complete rot spec and had punch in envenoms. Rogues were complete. That was true rogue stuff instead of the plague that legion forward has become.

No gimmicks, all class whoopings.

Think of cataclysm but even more developed rogue stuff.

2 Likes