Raiding with just 10, or just 15, would undeniably be more difficult than raiding with 20. Raiding has generally been easier when you have more bodies to do the various tasks involved.
But it’s better to have the option.
And frankly, my primary concern is allowing raids to scale up to 30. That way, raid leaders wouldn’t have to tell players “you can’t play, tonight” and raids wouldn’t have to tell people who want to join “sorry, we don’t have room” as much.
Mythic 20m is all we have at the moment.
Who cares what the top 500 do when we only have 26 guilds even clearing the raid at all?
theres nothing of worth in the raid anyway. mount looks bad, and the sets look bad.
There are 31 as of today, with a solid 20-30 more in striking distance of a kill, and it is 2 months old and will last 6-8 months at least; this is a great tier, every mythic raider I speak to loves that this tier is longer with harder fights. We are happy.
There are almost 40 specs in this game, the only way this would work would be to A. Cut a ton of specs (AWFUL IDEA) B. Homogenize all the classes (They half-did this and people LOST it, aka AWFUL IDEA) C. Tell every player who enjoys progressing and pushing higher content to play the 10 specific class/spec options or sit on a bench, or fail over and over until nerfs occurred (which removes the challenge, and therefore the accomplishment, and is therefore an AWFUL IDEA)
20 man is the lowest it should ever be, and with a new class with 2 specs being introduced it already makes this problem more noticable.
That’s cool. Here let me clarify a little further, 1500~ guilds have cleared Heroic. ~3500 have cleared just the first boss in Mythic, and that’s world wide.
Your mode is dying and it’s just going to get worse.
You and your anecdotal friends are evidence that you are happy.
Hard disagree, raiding participation is down and the PVE aspect is losing interest compared to Mythic+. Blizzard needs to adapt that folks don’t want to do content with large groups of folks any longer and need to utilize their technology for Mythic and introduce flex into the mix.
How about:
D. Don’t raid 10-man if you don’t want to.
Big agree. Our group is closing in on finishing heroic and once we do there will be nothing left for us to raid for the rest of the season. I would love to take some of our less experienced players in to the first few bosses on mythic but as we are a community raid team we can’t do that cross server and more importantly we wouldn’t even have the numbers to do it (we average 12-15 players a night).
20 man mythic made sense in MoP. Doesn’t really work anymore. 10-20 flex for mythic. If they can’t balance and code around that, well frankly thats a skill issue and maybe its time to invest in some new talent in that department.
We ran into the same thing back in Nathria. We didn’t want to get 10 more folks to do Mythic, so we just quit and moved on.
I wouldn’t mind seeing 10 man raiding again but there is almost no way they are going to do it for mythic raids. If they did it would double their work to balance the fights and they would have to ensure mechanics scaled down so you could do them with half as many players. Flex raiding for mythic would be great but I just don’t think it is in the cards.
I think there should be a 10m mode and 25m mode and each mode gives a different colored gear set, mythic raid only though! normal/heroic can stay flex!
10-30 please. No reason to shut out the existing Mythic raiding guilds (all of which have more than 20 players, because you have to.)
I know you’re well aware, but shall I clarify for the others…most guilds have chosen to forego the jailer, and this is widely known, so attempting to use that as some type of narrative is laughable.
This game has been “dying” for years, but raiding is still the most active part, so once again you attempt to twist data to appease your side or admit that percentages matter more than solid numbers, and the percentage of players completing or attempting to complete mythic is pretty much where it has been for many years.
Basically, you’re wrong, homogenizing and removing class identity in order to make people feel better because they can’t handle working as a team with 19 others is not the fix.
It would? As if they spend any time balancing the fights now.
They would? They don’t do this now, either, for the difficulties that DO scale. Just look at Heroic Jailer P3 adds with 15 vs 30.
Dude don’t look at M+ CE completion rates vs. Mythic raid participation. Mythic+ has taken over raiding by a long shot in popularity.
A big part of that is what a smorgasbord of free gear M+ is, though.
Doesn’t change the fact that it’s widely more popular, especially when folks see the advantage of it vs. raiding.
Unquestionably, raiding needs help.
the correct thing would be to rebalance and revise what it means to mythic raid, or to normal and heroic raid.
If mythic showed as an answer for Heroics not feeling as Heroic anymore, the answer should have been to balance raids so they were Epic again, instead of stacking many difficulties and causing a huge ilv bloat in the game.
We should change all the rules, have a normal raid that is casual friendly and a heroic level that is an obtainable but still a worthy challenge. Same for dungeons.
Smaller content has always had higher completion numbers…it’s easier, and can be pugged, requiring only 4 other people; by definition it will have a higher amount of completions. Also, M+ has varying skill levels, please go tell me the % of players completing 25ish +s because that would be the equivalent comparison to mythic raiding.
You are attempting to compare apples and oranges, you are either unaware of how to fully understand things or trolling, and I sincerely hope it’s the latter.
10m Mythic raiding would help bolster raiding again for this reason, except it wouldn’t be easy, it would be much harder.
It’s not my fault that M+ is the route this game has gone in terms of accessibility to the general player population.
I think you’re being disingenuous with this entire discussion. You’re against flex raiding coming to Mythic because you think it’ll lessen the class diversity. As if it even matters when you can still join groups that do 20m raiding.
“Well no one will do that!” Someone will and if they aren’t then the option for you to go that route would be there.
This game needs to become more accessible and folks don’t have the time or want to recruit for strictly 20 folks anymore. It isn’t sustainable in this game. Especially when M+ has given players a taste of the easier gearing path with a tight group of friends/pugs.