Have a solo size too. I don’t really care. Loot shouldn’t be the character expression wall. It would also gut the gdkp side meta which would be welcome as hell.
1 Like
I totally agree that loot shouldn’t be the the only go-to in this game. But some people keep insisting they want the best loot from an easier mode of game.
No i dont have the time to try it yet. And yes I agree the numbers do look like the 25 man will be harder. But for average players that dont grind ptr, raid difficulty is not measured by the hardwares like dps/boss health, it’s more about how much tolerance the boss has on mistakes. With the number of cooldowns 25m has, it’s easy to recover from a minor mistake, while usually the same mistake in 10 man means a wipe.
In regards of the dps issue you mentioned, for most guilds (excluding first week 7/7H guilds) in the game, by the time they meet H rag they would be at least 380 item level, which is way higher than what you could get in PTR, so dps check will not be the issue here in both 10/25 man. But lack of defensive cooldowns and less people do deal with mechanics will still be an issue regardless of item level.
So my conclusion is, if we are only focusing on the top 5% (maybe less) players who wants to kill H rag on the first few weeks, yes it is harder on the 25 man for dps reasons, but for the majority of players who meet h rag at 385+, 25 man will be the easier content for multiple reasons.
Then the question comes down to: when we talk about “difficulty”, whose opinion matters? The 5% or the other 95%?
Aside from the dps check of H Rag in 25m which is the main discussion point here.
In Wotlk, all boss spells do less damage in 10m than in 25m to compensate 10m having less CDs, but to a point where these spells that were lethal in 25m weren’t even worth spending a CD on. Yes I am talking about soul reaper from HLK, it does like 4/5 of damage in 10m compared to 25m so most Dks could just survive that without using IBF or requesting a PS.
Now speaking of FL and onwards, I am not 100% certain yet if boss spells do less in 10m. My conventional belief would be yes but will need to confirm that. But in the mean time, you have 2 healers to cover a 10m raid while having 4 healers to cover a 25m raid. So even if the damage numbers are exactly the same, it still appears that 25m need more extensive healing. Maybe the less number of CDs available can balance this, so healing wise its possible that 10m isn’t easier.
In terms of mistake tolerance, in our PTR testing we have came to a conclusion that if we cannot have all players alive by the start of phase 3 in 25m H rag, it is a wipe 100%. With our current gear, it is impossible to beat phase 3 dps check having just one less player. This is however possible in 10m, since our 10m group were way ahead before 3rd meteor drops, so having 1 less dps seems barely doable.
So yes, if you are pushing Heroic Rag in first few weeks, 25m is definitely harder by far and there is actually less tolerance.
Wrong. Flying Hellfish on Bloodsail Buccaneers are putting The Horde on the board for 25 heroics, and are doing 2x blind SR’s with MS > OS +1 for stuff not SR’d.
yea, sure man. Just be sure the RL gets his 15% cut at end.
LMAO what? There’s no GDKP. You can come over yourself if you’d like, but I doubt you will cause it doesn’t fit your insistence that anyone who does something that you don’t like does GDKPs. Like, you don’t even have to level, you just have to create a toon horde-side on Bloodsail Buccaneers, and ask if it’s a GDKP in LFG chat lol
Last i checked when you rounded anything over .49 you round it up ;).
I understand the point you are trying to state but you are trying to bring math into the equation while rounding .5 downwards…
Thanks for the chats. I doubt Bliz even reads posts with “loot” in the subject.
Its been explained so many times.
Its because you DONT need those cds on 10m because the mechanics dont hit for ANYTHING on 10m.
This really isnt hard to grasp.
Probably nobody’s.
Because, we all have the exact same tradeoffs to make when it comes to whether we want to do 10 man or 25 man. Understanding what those tradeoffs are, if amount of loot dropped per boss per player is the deciding factor, then you will choose 25 man. If you choose 10 man, then that is not your only consideration, and you have chosen other things that matter more to you.
Except they do, all the major abilities that you need cool downs for on 25 man you need them on 10 man.
And that also means there’s less room for filler in 10 man since covering enough cool downs simply takes a larger portion of the raid which oh yeah also mean if you have random deaths it’s a higher chance of losing something important.
2 Likes
that is not true, go check Wowhead stats. 10m soul reaper does 50k, 25m does 70k. And plus LK hits so much harder in 25m. ???
I didnt find stats for firelands in Wowhead just yet since it isn’t updated based on ptr.
You have the same exact health as a 25m raider in 10m, the boss abilities factually don’t hit for the same, they hit for far less.
This is the nerfed version of 10m
You keep lying to make stuff up to fit your argument when the actual data contradicts you.
And 25 man has more healers to you know heal that extra damage.
1 Like
It’s not about the 2 extra healers of you even run that in 25m, it’s the fact the abilities on prog almost 1 shot, healers are irrelevant.
The big CDs are used for big raid wide abilities.
You don’t need that on 10m.
You can cope all you want, 25m is factually harder.
You certainly have not tried 25m HLK with 0 buff. Because soul reaper + hasted swing can just one-shot blood DK in like 0.2 seconds. This had been the biggest concern for most progression guilds. It won’t matter even if you have 20 healers. You just need AMS + PS/HOS to survive that. But in 10m this concern is gone.
He couldnt even kill heroic LK 25 until icc had the 25% buff.
Dont worry he cleared tier 11 heroic 10m np tho.
Wonder why?
this is incorrect. halfus aoe stun does the same damage. sinestra flame breath does that same damage. nefs crackle does the same damage. but you have 2x the amount of cds? when it comes to stuff like scorching blast you know that is a stack soak mechanic it needs to scale for 25 right? or if it hits the same as 10 it would do no damage? i have done 25 man and sure there’s some rough fights but its not nearly to the point you say it is. you are entirely capping or really bad if you think 25 man is a beast you say it is. the hardest part is getting 25 people to log in. i don’t care what some guild in 2011 with high amounts of gear can say about a raid. go lookup spell ids and logs and do your own research. now what i will say yes there’s jokes of a fight in 10 man. example chogall is a joke on 10 man, but so is sinestra in 25. also bringing up icc 10 vs 25 is dumb. it was supposed to be easier because it drops worse gear? like im unsure what that actually has to do with anything. anyway people are clearing 25 heroic with 3 healers and sometimes you need 3 for 10. so idk what to tell you homie.
6 Likes
you HAVE to be an AI generated human
1 Like