You don’t even realize, you’ve been arguing in bad faith. You can’t zerg current AV, the NPCs scale and the Generals DECIMATE full groups unless you cap the towers first.
This is what I’m talking about, this is the stuff I’m talking about and you guys accuse me of trolling when in fact, you’re the ones actually trolling. You’re talking about this retail AV zerg and comparing it to the 1.12 zerg and the retail zerg doesn’t even exist now. Telling people to go play retail if they want the “1.12 zerg.”
The thing is 1.5 AV wasn’t over all that popular which is why blizzard changed it. While there might be a small group of hardcore players who loved the original AV overall a lot of people apparently didn’t.
And if you don’t like the zerg well there’s a great player solution to that in 1.12, play some defense. The golden age of AV was 1.11 until reinforcements were added.
Blizzard changed it because the retail type of mind set was going onto the forums to complain. I think we’re here to have a conversation about what makes retail mindset think “AV is too hard gimme something easier” So they did. I don’t know if I would say a “small” group of player is accurate because if something is not broken why would people flood the forums? So the likely outcome was that the forums where over ran by MOSTLY those who didn’t like the slow rep gains, or the length of time it took to win.
I can admit I am ignorant to AV in current WoW/BFA.
However my point is still valid if the AV’s are not long and epic running for DAYS on end. If they still have reinforcements that will make a win after a certain time inevitable then it still not what most of us want.
I want to be able to log in the next day after playing all night before, and we have made a push to the next GY by the Night crew.
I know people can still try and rush in 1.12… and by what you’re saying it’s now harder to rush in current. But unless we can summon elementals, and fight Korrak before snowfall is even available it might as well be 1.12 to me.
Simply put, people don’t flood the forums when they have what they want. So the only people that flooded the forums for this change were doing so because they wanted an easier AV.
So you’re saying the majority of players wanted 1.12 AV, and I am saying the only ones you saw on the forums complaining were the ones that wanted the change and the majority of us that were enjoying 1.5 were likely in Alterac Valley loving every moment of it.
I was not on the forums back then, and neither were any of my 12ish friends that are coming back to Classic and prefer 1.5.
So if you’re basing purely on what changed because of the forums… it’s not really a good place to say the majority wanted 1.12 and that’s what we got. Because when you are content with 1.5 you didn’t know there was an issue!
Well no, I’m basing it the fact that blizzard changed it. The original AV was a swing and a miss which is why it was changed. Not everything was perfect in vanilla at release and indeed some things needed some major work, AV happened to be one of them.
The AV changes made the map predominantly pvp focused instead of pve focused which is what a BG should be about.
So you’re saying that the 1.12 AV that created the zerg culture into what it is today where both factions simply rush past one another to get to the NPC bosses at the end isn’t just a PvE race? And that the raging war that pitted people against one another for days on end sometimes where players fought NPC and Players alike was not the PvPvE BG that it was based on? You’re saying that it made it LESS PvP when people didn’t really have to try and fight one another?
And the fact that Blizz changed it does not show at ALL whatsoever that it because it was popular. I think I already proved that it was changed because people only go to forums when something it in the game they don’t like. The majority of player back then weren’t in the forums, they were busy having fun in 1.5 AV…
At this point if you have another rebuttal I’ll just let you have it… because you’re clearly not even TRYING to make valid points.
Learn how to take out some quotes, people. We’re quoting quotes that are quoting quotes quoted by other quoting people here and it’s getting a bit spooky.
So many whiny entitled players. 1.12 AV will be fine. Some of the modernization will be fine. The classic experience will be there, it will be fine. Hell, even if they have to server merge (saw another post about this), it will be fine, until it isn’t cause no one wants to play classic.
I look forward to what Blizz is offering and I hope it is successful. Successful enough, they will consider the ultimate and definitive version of WoW, TBC.
Sorry, I am not posting on my pre TBC character. He has gone through so many faction and race changes, he wouldn’t be recognizable.
Reinforcements created the zerg playstyle because they punish playing defense. Like I said if you don’t like the zerg well it’s entirely possible for you as a player to do something about it, you know a pvp solution to a pvp problem instead of relying on blizzard to throw a bunch of npc’s all over the map.
I would be hard pressed to find a (legit from variety of sample player websites) poll that did not show a considerable leaning toward a preference to the earlier AV. Either because it was better in their opinion or because the BG was radically changed before they could play it.
Please don’t try to paint the support for early AV as small/hardcore.
Polls don’t prove a thing dude. The only thing it proves is what those certain people want during the time they are polled.
Out of all the people who play this game (in classic’s case it would have many are going to) how many do you think actually read the forums? Especially for a game that isn’t even out yet. The percentage is astronomically small, just like it is for every game. So yeah, the support for early AV is small because the community here is already small.
Ah, but making wholesale changes to a BG based on only those coming to the forum to whine about something during the time early AV existed, while those who enjoyed it (As I did) kept playing was cool though? Polls are bad, but changing things solely on the ones whining on a forum while those that enjoy it were actually playing is good?
Well, damned good thing I wrote:
“legit from variety of sample player websites”
Fairly certain those who have been clamoring for this for over a decade and those who signed the petition are well aware of the project. Those being people who actually want the project and care about the project.
[citation needed]
You know how you and Galdor have a habit of jumping on statements like this?
Well, damned good thing I wrote:
“legit from variety of sample player websites”
Support here may appear small, because it is adjacent to a large forum of people made up largely of people who dislike vanilla and routinely wander in here just to spread subterfuge toward the project.
Why are you assuming they changed it because of forum rage? That’s pretty silly… if there was ever a time blizzard DIDN’T listen to us, it was early on in World of Warcraft. They probably changed it because it was the least popular BG and there wasn’t really a lot of people queing for it, because of the issues with the length and how tough the NPCs were. I’m not saying this is a good or bad thing for how hard they were but assuming they changed it from backlash is kinda silly considering they ignored a million other issues they were getting flamed for that were way more important or rather a much bigger issue than AV.
So by this statement alone, we shouldn’t change AV back to 1.5-1.8 now should we? There are people that actually enjoy 1.12 AV so it’s bad to change it because of your whining. I’m not saying you should/shouldn’t do this myself, but this is exactly what you are saying.
I didn’t say ‘the blizzard forums’ I just said forums. This could be reddit, MMO-champ, wowhead, anywhere where we are discussing classic. The polls are still useless because the mass mass mass majority of players don’t participate.
I never said they aren’t aware of the project, I was saying that they don’t participate daily in forums posts. I would wager the majority of people who play to play classic, and are aware of the project don’t know what version of AV we are using. Christ I would put my money on them not even knowing the difference, or what patch they are even planning on using and them not even knowing what that version of vanilla means.
This is common sense. This is how every single game is. Look at fortnite for example, how many people do you think play that game and read boards/patch notes/participate in discussion compared to the number that plays the game? This is common…sense…
Fortnite has around 78 million people playing, and if we look at the subreddit fortnite it says 200K people are subbed to it with around 2k people discussing it at any given time. I know this is just one example and you could look up more if you would like but this is common sense you don’t need a citation. If you don’t want to believe it then that’s fine idc. Just understand that it’s going to be true no matter what the game is.
Lol
“Largely made up of people who dislike vanilla”
Ok bud, this is the most dense pro-vanilla everything forum that is pertaining to classic WoW, maybe you should go read up on some others for a second.
And once again, I am not limiting what I said to just this forum. I’m including mmoc, reddit, discords, everything. The community is small compared to the playerbase as it is for every.single.game.
You want to go to a place where people actually are more ‘retail mindset’, go to reddit. Sort by top rated of all time and the number one post on that forum is them asking for vanilla to have additional content. Go to MMO-C where they are constantly talking about fixing classes that needed fixed in vanilla to be more competitive in raids. I know you speak in hyperbolic, and you like to blow things out of proportion. But this forum is by far the community who wants to stick to vanilla the most.
And whether you like it or not, 1.12 AV is authentic vanilla and was the version of AV that was out the longest.
Don’t even bother with him, man. He’s a troll dressed like a side of beef, and butthurt because some former Wall of No supporters turned out to actually be in favor of Classic WoW, thus violating his own “us and them” worldview.