1.12 AV Will Kill Classic

[Hellzfire-korgath (Hellzfire)]

No one actually need to be reminded of the differences they are obvious. This guy is just going deep into the delusion that others like him have gone down to try and glorify the version they prefer.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Could you imagine being a DM, creating a campaign for your players with various facets and fun mini-tasks that all worked toward the longterm goal, and that campaign would be run repeatedly? Could you then imagine the players saying it is too long, cannot be done in one sitting and that they just want to kill the final boss so they can get the loot, and can you further imagine actually caving to their whim?

The sad truth is many players don’t even think of WoW as a game anymore. They’ve been conditioned that the journey means nothing. It’s just a gear treadmill. The irony being that the gear has become meaningless. Scaling, as you mention, negates a large part of the progression. But on top of that, gear is given out like candy anyway. So no one cares about getting gear anymore. It’s just about efficiency: how quickly can I get it. How little effort can I put forth, etc.

Hence the appeal of 1.12 AV. The zerg version. Run to the enemy base, and hope you kill the General before the other team does. If so, great. If not, no big deal. Quick loss is better than a long win. The notion of entering an AV and playing for a few hours in a single battle…just to spend a few hours in a single battle is so foreign to these people they can’t even fathom the appeal. So it’s no surprise to me why they prefer 1.12 AV. They’ve been brainwashed to think this is how mmo content and rewards should be done.

What is worse, is that developers actually cave to it, sacrificing actual meaningful gameplay. As a DM I would have kicked such players out and searched for players who actually enjoy content.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

did ya see that video i linked by chance? doesnt that sound like fun?

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

What is worse, is that developers actually cave to it, sacrificing actual meaningful gameplay. As a DM I would have kicked such players out and searched for players who actually enjoy content.

To say I was disappointed in the Blue’s post reasoning of why they chose 1.12 AV (earlier version had too many npcs, and they were too strong) would be a massive understatement.

[Medeoan-proudmoore (Medeoan)]

So many people “OH GODDSSSS!!! AV 1.12 IS GONNA RUIN THE GAME!!!” The 6 minute AV didn’t start happening until patch 2.0 in preparation for The Burning Crusade. Prior to that, you NEEDED a solid premade team to pull off a 6 minute AV. Even then it was rare.

[Puremallace-arthas]

lol I want to see you run Naxx once LMFAOOOO

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

So many people “OH GODDSSSS!!! AV 1.12 IS GONNA RUIN THE GAME!!!” The 6 minute AV didn’t start happening until patch 2.0 in preparation for The Burning Crusade. Prior to that, you NEEDED a solid premade team to pull off a 6 minute AV. Even then it was rare.

The TBC pre-patch changed nothing about AV. What you’re saying is simply untrue. You can easily zerg 1.12 AV. It just wasn’t happening that frequently because players hadn’t realized it yet. But they do now.

[Inkys-winterhoof]

it might be one of the factors that eventually kills it but it won’t be the reason. its just further proof that blizzard can dump on their fans’ plates nowadays and they’d ask for seconds

[Kasuya-azgalor]

This guy…

• If you claim that 1.12 AV will always be a zerg and 1.5 AV will never be a zerg, I will disagree.

1.5 was just harder to zerg, that’s not up for debate any longer. Who cares if a premade with good/awesome gear can pull off a zerg eventually. Pugs in 1.5 still have a chance to turtle easier.

• If you claim 1.12 AV is virtually identical to retail AV, oh boy am I ever gonna disagree. They don’t even function in close to the same manner. For one, retail AV has scaling NPC’s.

Retail AV is WAY closer in design to 1.12 than in 1.5. Else why are we debating the difficulty of zerging one vs the other? It is nearly identical in the way that a zerg was continued to be made something that was easier by a fair margin. You’re just trolling…

• If you claim 1.12 AV was created with a BfA mindset; 12 years before BfA launched, I’m going to disagree.

Now I KNOW you’re just trolling people, you know for a fact that the point of him saying that was to show that the current retail fan base mentality is always going to vote for things to be easier for them to just log on and get what they want faster. If you’re going to play dumb, at least play dumb on something you can convince us you’re truly oblivious to.

• If you claim 1.12 AV is less authentic than 1.5 AV… in patch 1.12, I’m going to disagree. However, I don’t necessarily place authenticity before all else, which is why I want them to restore AV to its complete state. I want the entire cast of NPC’s in their original power and if possible, the old map with landmines and shredders to make a return.

You say this, but the way you act towards others that share the same feeling is not really helping your cause. It actually looks like you’re a BFA troll incognito. You’re just here stirring the pot huh? You make points to agree but pick at every little thing that someone posts that agrees with your supposed narrative to the point of ridiculousness.

• If you claim that private servers created an authentic 1.5 AV, I will disagree and post proof that they created a custom version.

Please don’t waste your time, everyone knows PS data is incomplete and is just people trying to reproduce what they lost. Also try to understand that trolling in this manner and curving the topics is toxic.

• If you claim that Blizzard is lying about not having the 1.5 data, despite everything they’ve said and their explanations for not having it, I will disagree.

Lying?.. More like maybe even potentially pressed by actiblizz to quickly produce classic to get their income through subs back asap because BFA is bleeding subs. This guy you’re ripping into wants the same thing as you pretend to, but yet you’re trying to make points of him and make him out to be ignorant. Let him think they are lying if he wants… what’s it to you?

• If you claim to want a completely authentic experience and you want Blizzard to throw darts while blindfolded in an attempt to create an authentic 1.5 AV, I will call out that hypocrisy.

Haha bro… I can’t… I just can’t…
Oh man… anyway… even if they don’t have the code, the point I think he was trying to make here is that if a PS can replicate a closely authentic experience, then it is an option. This isn’t against #nochanges because it’s an attempt to restore something that was lost (potentially) and it is THEIR (actiblizz) personal intellectual property, so if they hand us a version that is very similar then that IS 1.5. If the PS community can accept it as being a replica so too will the classic fans.

I want the full-fledged AV experience, I won’t indulge with players that feel the same way and make arguments in bad faith.

Really, cause I don’t think you do. The way you talk down on others who share your belief is completely not aligning with what you’re saying that you’re doing. Like at all… you shoulda rolled Troll because you can’t be human(irl) if you actually don’t see what you’re doing as a problem.

[Laeric-wyrmrest-accord]

The problem with this whole thing is that it’s impossible to truly replicate 1.5 AV with the pserver method. All they’re doing is taking 1.12 AV, and throwing in 1.5 stuff.

That’s not authentic by any stretch of the imagination. Blizzard’s goal is to be as authentic as possible, barring some back-end stuff to make sure the game runs on modern Battlenet server hardware properly.

[Kasuya-azgalor]

So many people “OH GODDSSSS!!! AV 1.12 IS GONNA RUIN THE GAME!!!” The 6 minute AV didn’t start happening until patch 2.0 in preparation for The Burning Crusade. Prior to that, you NEEDED a solid premade team to pull off a 6 minute AV. Even then it was rare.

Not as rare as in 1.5.
Troll elsewhere plzkthx

[Jawah-emerald-dream (Jawah)]

you shoulda rolled Troll because you can’t be human(irl)

Lol

[Nomcrunch-burning-blade]

AV was the primary source of PvP in Vanilla, and it will be the primary source of PvP in Classic.

As someone who played WoW both before and after AV was added, this is wrong. I think if there was a Battleground that could be considered the primary source of PvP it was probably WSG. Even that is possibly a stretch, as I feel like Arathi Basin probably wasn’t that far behind.

People will definitely still play AV, even after raids are done. At any rate, even if we went with 1.5 Alterac Valley in the original, earliest phase they could release it in that coincides with it’s original launch date, why would it stay that way?

AV changed a lot over the course of Vanilla. Toward the end, when a few people had started obtaining tier 3 armor and naxx trash loot, it was a very different battleground from what it started as. I get that 1.12 AV coming out before BWL wouldn’t be true to Vanilla. I have to say though, that 1.5 AV remaining out when people are clearing AQ40 is also NOT true to Vanilla.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

Really, cause I don’t think you do. The way you talk down on others who share your belief is completely not aligning with what you’re saying that you’re doing.

Talk down on others? You mean dismantling their bias that exists in total ignorance of the truth? I don’t care what you, Brokenwind and Mogar think; all three of you are legitimately trolls.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

It is nearly identical in the way that a zerg was continued to be made something that was easier by a fair margin.

Retail BfA has added NPC scaling to make the games longer. They’ve made design decisions to make the games longer. 1.12 AV changes were made to make the battle shorter.

To claim that 1.12 AV is closer to BfA AV than it is to 1.5 AV is just ignorant. What are you basing that claim on? Time to completion alone? Number of NPCs? That’s like saying “If you want post 1.11 threat MC, go play retail! Retail MC is closer to 1.12 MC than Vanilla launch MC!”

BfA AV has BfA classes, talents and items including Goblin Gliders. It’s a completely different experience from 1.12 AV, 1.5 AV at least has the same classes and most of the same items.

I won’t respond to you further, it’s a waste of time to argue with 13 post trolls.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

@Kasuya-azgalor

if a PS can replicate a closely authentic experience, then it is an option.

Nano

Imagine thinking that I don’t want a full-fledged AV experience because I don’t stoop to the level of using junior-high school bully tactics.

Imagine, because I don’t agree with the arguments made in bad faith and the outright lies perpetuated by Brokenwind and others, that I don’t want a full-fledged AV experience. Imagine, by not crying and giving Blizzard ultimatums that I have no intention of upholding in the least like Mogar, I don’t want the full-fledged AV experience.

I want them to restore the complete NPC guard and Korrak, as well as restore the old map if possible and place the landmines and shredders in the BG. I want them to restore the original feel of an epic battle that is likely to last much longer than the average 1.12 AV battle.

That’s all that needs to be said. I don’t need to say “if you want 1.12 AV, go play retail where it’s virtually the same!” I don’t need to say “retail babies are trying to ruin AV, Blizzard is listening to them; they don’t know what they’re doing!” I don’t need to say “1.12 AV only exists for those who want the convenience of quick wins or losses!”

I don’t need to say any of that garbage to make a good argument for restoring the complete, original AV experience.

[Merciless-executus]

1.12 AV is vulnerable to zerging.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

More vulnerable to zerging, yes. Less numerous, weaker NPCs contribute to that.

[Kasuya-azgalor]

Really, cause I don’t think you do. The way you talk down on others who share your belief is completely not aligning with what you’re saying that you’re doing.

Talk down on others? You mean dismantling their bias that exists in total ignorance of the truth? I don’t care what you, Brokenwind and Mogar think; all three of you are legitimately trolls.

I think the only one that got dismantled was you.

Retail BfA has added NPC scaling to make the games longer. They’ve made design decisions to make the games longer. 1.12 AV changes were made to make the battle shorter.

To claim that 1.12 AV is closer to BfA AV than it is to 1.5 AV is just ignorant. What are you basing that claim on? Time to completion alone? Number of NPCs? That’s like saying “If you want post 1.11 threat MC, go play retail! Retail MC is closer to 1.12 MC than Vanilla launch MC!”

BfA AV has BfA classes, talents and items including Goblin Gliders. It’s a completely different experience from 1.12 AV, 1.5 AV at least has the same classes and most of the same items.

I won’t respond to you further, it’s a waste of time to argue with 13 post trolls.

I stopped playing retail and likely wont be looking to see what updates it had coming to it unless they completely changed the entire game to be more like a version of vanilla, and that would destroy the retail players home. So I don’t want that at all.

I know you’re upset because I wrecked your post earlier because you got called out for trolling people that you supposedly agree with, but let’s try and get some clarity here if you’ll humor me.

You asked “To claim that 1.12 AV is closer to BfA AV than it is to 1.5 AV is just ignorant. What are you basing that claim on? Time to completion alone? Number of NPCs?”

My answer is thus… the combination of retail players mentality to rush into an AV and zerg it to just get it finished with is still defeating the content blizzard may have added to “toughen” it up. If they did try to make it harder to zerg that in my book is completely awesome. But until it stops zerging in it’s tracks it shares the only ONE thing in common that you keep evading. Which is the fact that AV since 1.12 and beyond has become a shell of itself and zergs are in part being continued through retail mentality (gimme a win or loss now idc) AND the pure lack of adding a difficult enough content to stop this ZERG from happening.

Sure there is probably more content that has changed that I have not witnessed myself. But if they are still zerging then it isn’t enough to make it closer to the reason why we are talking about 1.5 being better in the first place. 1.5 av made it harder to zerg.

So yeah it’s still being zerged isn’t it? So in my book by definition of the issue we are talking about, this current AV is still a zerg and THAT is the topic.

So yeah 1.5 (harder to zerg marginally) and 1.12 and current wow AV are still closer in relation by that definition.

You follow me this time kiddo?

[Kasuya-azgalor]

AV was the primary source of PvP in Vanilla, and it will be the primary source of PvP in Classic.

why would it stay that way?

Because the 1.5 AV was created to be a massive PvPvE battleground at the core of its creation. It WAS in fact a design attempt at Vanilla’s core to be a “Final War Zone” during the vanilla content. The fact that before vanilla was finished and TBC came out that it was made easier during the timeline of events, does not warrant that we should follow that timeline again when virtually anyone that loves or cares for AV as a major part of their WoW experience is flooding the forums to say “Hey, 1.5 all the way”.

Only those people who pretend that 1.12 is “fine”, they just want the game to release earlier and don’t mind, or they legit don’t even do AV except for the rep gear and then never queue again are the ones that are even trying to argue that 1.12 is a good option.

Anyone who actually cares and wants to basically live in AV knows that 1.5 is how it should have stayed all the way to today’s date in current retail. That’s how much 1.5 means to people that actually do care.

Edit: So the fact that most of the community that is AGAINST them changing their stance to 1.5 are actually just here to say just that. It’s fine by me… It’s not even an argument it’s just them wanting their game released.

People who want 1.5 however are saying, this isn’t fine by me please change it blizz, don’t listen to people who want 1.12 just to get their rep gear faster, or so the game releases early summer rather than mid summer.