1.12 AV is not a zerg, unless players want that

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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There are two hard chokepoints on the map:

  • IBGY / Galv
  • Ally bridge

Defending those points, even lightly, stops the race. We were routinely stifled by the Horde in Vanilla 1.12 and will be again…

If they want to defend.

1.12 AV is what you make of it. You want an epic turtle? Make one.

1.5 AV was a huge lengthy fight because of NPC’s, not necessarily PvP. It was quickly changed because players did not like it, remember? I have great memories from these wars, they were huge and endless, but the majority did not like them.

Does anyone have evidence that fighting tons of NPC’s is going to be more popular this summer than it was originally? I think that’s debateable.

1.12 AV is what you make of it. Sure, the epic wars were fun back in the day, but havkng to organize tanks and healers every step of the way to fight super macho NPC’s…? That’s a lot of PvE in a supposed PvP experience (IMO).

Mileage will vary.

Have at it.

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BfA AV isn’t a zerg unless players want it to be. And guess what: it’s a zerg.

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Basically we went from the Peeling of the Onion being a requirement to a choice of zerg or turtle.

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I remember quite clearly. The PVE elements are what forced thee to be more PVE. Do YOU remember?

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Actually it changed because the PVP Grinders did not like AV, the rest of us did…

The NPC’s and all that stuff in there from the older versions of AV before they nerfed it to death, that stuff was fun for different people.

AV was more than just PVP, it was all of WoW in its totality summed up in a single instance.

You had Dungeon Quests
You had Raid events
You had solo player missions
You had world PVP and ganking
You had massive world PVP battles.

AV before it was nerfed was World of WarCraft in a single place… and we loved it!

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Again, the path of least resistance is what will happen.

If AV is the version that allows for a zerg, it will happen. No NPCs to slow it down/prevent it/encourage other forms of playing the BG, then zerg is what it will be.

You can say players make it what it is all you want, but any time there’s a path of least resistance, that’s what the majority of players will take. Doesn’t matter if the other 10 people in AV want to do a proper AV. It won’t happen.

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The npc’s in AV were part of the unique nature of the third battle ground. It wasn’t designed so two teams could run more or less straight to an objective. That was WSG and AB.

But I’m still appreciative to get any version of early AV.

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How dare you propose that the players actually take matters into their own hands and stop the zerg. Clearly it’s up to blizzard to litter what is supposed to be a pvp map with NPC’s.

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It was never a requirement.

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Blizzard gives the foundation to rushing, so players will rush. Blizzard gives the foundation to crossrealm action, so people will queue up that way.

1.5. AV or even 1.3. are the only unique things besides Naxx, the only two things they had to keep to make me play their game. I can do all the other content on BFA, sure running MC on 60 with the lack of talent tree´s is different, but for me not a deal breaker. I run all Vanilla raids solo if I am interested in the lore, if I want quick pvp action, I can find that on BFA too.

What I can´t find on BFA is classic AV, Naxx and some of the old transmogs. The other stuff, is there, so why release Classic if you exclude such a big thing like original AV?

I am trying really hard to understand why Blizzard does a Classic WOW, without it being Classic. Do they truly believe, that we asked for Vanilla because of 1.12? Right now, I also see crossrealm introduced and sharding, it will happen I am sure of it. Authentic WOW is just not in their intrest, which I understand somehow, as the new folks won´t play it, but then why market your product as authentic?

I just don´t get their mindset, thats all. I stayed away from pirate WOW realms for a reason and that was the lack of an authentic Vanilla, I won´t change my mind now, just because a “Blizzard” tag is behind the client.

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It was a battle ground, not a pvp battle royale. It’s original design was to throw everything at players in a ‘high level only’ environment.

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AV was not envisioned as a purely PvP experience. So you’re right to say it had a lot of pve. You’re wrong to say it was a “supposed pvp experience.”

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Every single tower gets capped in most BfA AV’s I’ve been in. Just because the battles are 40 minutes long instead of 4 hours long, doesn’t mean it’s a zerg. There’s tons of backcapping and defensive strats that are used in almost every game.

Of course you wouldn’t know that since you know, you haven’t played AV in a long time.

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That’s not how it works. The changes were in response to player actions, not the cause of them. Everything that was taken out of AV was done so because players wanted it that way.

And before sand drifts up your overly-tight bumbums, I KNOW that not every player wanted that. I didn’t. But enough did to warrant the changes.

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This 1000%!

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This is such a stupid post.

Certain design decisions encourage certain gameplay.

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1.3 AV huh. Tell me more about this AV

If you aren’t going to inform yourself on the very basics of Classic I think it’s best you stay out of conversations until you do.

Yeah it seems your really speaking out of turn. Okay have fun with this! Not bothering reading the rest of this nonsense.

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You’re asking players to play inefficiently, and that’s not going to happen. Players will say flying mounts are terrible and ruin world pvp. And they’ll all use flying mounts. They’ll say lfr and lfd breaks communities and takes away from the social experience. And they’ll all use that feature. Players will take the path of least resistance every time, to the detriment of their enjoyment.

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You realize that at one point, Blizzard buffed some of the remaining NPC´s of AV? I believe it was some time around Cata, but i am not 100% there.

Fact is, 1.12. is rush AV, you can deny that but it´s the truth. I was there, I was absolutely emberassed by the way this version of “pvp” was played. Both teams just rushed into the final chamber, 5-10 minutes and GG.

Who tells you, that they bring 1.12. AV, but with the changes later, while leaving out reinforcements? If they say 1.12., then it will be 1.12. and that is zerg the boss down. :frowning:

If we go that way, how about we also add LFR and LFD, after all payers wanted it? How about Transmogs (I would actually love that), how about personal loot…

Not all changes are good and it is a fact that 1.12. killed pvp as we knew it. Crossrealm and the poor state of AV, were not good for the game and for me it was the patch that started turning WOW into an game of strangers.

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Just don’t okay? None of that stuff was in Vanilla at all. Don’t be willfully stupid. You’re not helping your own cause at all. You just look ridiculous.

Any number of people have voiced any number of experiences that directly contradict this. Apparently that counts for nothing.