You must see this! (WC3 Reforge vs Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition)

General Discussion
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I will emphasize my previous point why people are refunding it. It is not because patch 1.32 and the paid DLC is bad. Rather the paid DLC was miss-sold.

The way marketing worded Reforged was so open to interpretation that everyone had their own impossible ideas as to what it will be. These ideas foolishly spread via forums and people set their expectations far too high. When a realistic end product was delivered that did not match the impossible they wanted, they were very unhappy.

I have been fighting these false ideas since Reforged was announced. No one listened to me and many even stupidly tried to make fun of me, only for most of what I said to become true, because it was only logical and real. Here is a short list of the lies that people started to believe which made them buy Reforged.

  • Reforged is a separate client which offers new features. To keep playing and making new maps I will need to buy Reforged. Even more so because as more players buy Reforged the number of classic players will decrease.
    This was clearly not the case from the beginning. If it was they would not have bothered updating the classic client at all, like what happened with Age of Empires II. Maintaining parallel development branches is a utter nightmare, even more so if they have to be compatible with each other which was a promised feature. Hence why I stated a few days after the announcement that it was almost certainly going to be just another Warcraft III patch and that Reforged would be a DLC unlock of sorts, which turned out to be spot on. Everyone who brought the game for this reason would logically want a refund because they basically brought something they did not need as one can still use an old RoC key to play all Warcraft III custom maps.
  • The WoW tie in campaign will be awesome. The original was great, but this will be even better and they can go full out with the visuals. Just look at that playable demo at Blizcon! Those cinematics are awesome!
    Yes this was a reason to pre-order when it was first announced. However they announced last year that all these campaign promises were being cut back due to development issues and deviating too much from the original content to upset hardcore fans who want a Reforged experience of the old campaign. As soon as Blizzard announced this everyone who pre-ordered for this reason should have asked for a refund as it is no longer offering them the value they wanted. Reasons like this is why I am reluctant to pre order any game, since games are subject to huge changes during their development.
  • I can keep using my existing BattleNet 1.0 Warcraft III accounts and all the progress I made in Reforged.
    This was obviously not going to happen seeing how the intent was to move to BattleNet 2.0. I am not even sure how people ended up with this conclusion… Yes they would help you migrate your progress, like they did with WoW, but the old approach of spamming accounts and old servers would obviously go. It is bad enough in HotS that one can spam blank Blizzard accounts to smurf.
  • I can keep using the existing custom map EULA…
    Another obvious one that people like myself have been warning of from the start. StarCraft II uses this new EULA so it is only natural that WC3 would be adopting it with any kind of remake or progress. If you did not want to accept this modern EULA then you should not have pre-ordered. That said people are taking this completely out of proportion since there are plenty of successful StarCraft II custom maps that operate under this EULA and SC2 custom map makers in general have not had any major gripes with it. Blizzard is a reputable company, the last thing they would want to do is have every fan of theirs boycott them for unfairly stealing their favourite map from its rightful creator. No need to start the boycott now when they have not done anything…
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65

This video made me to buy Age of Empires! :smiley: Thanks! :smiley:

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WHY WOULD YOU BUY THIS GAME?!

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All Blizzard did was make it so people can’t sell mods built upon their games without them getting a cut. That mod Microsoft is licensing is being sold with them getting a cut of the profits. It’s the same effect, but worded differently. People need to stop looking for things to whine about. There are real problems with reforged, but it will take longer to fix if people keep making things up to complain about in it.

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Do you have a quote for that because the EULA says that they own the mod and every copyright in the content of the mod. So for you to say that it is about getting a cut you will need a quote from an employee. Otherwise it’s you guessing and that is kind of worthless.

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Everyone realize people are just making such videos because of views earn them money right?

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It’s not guessing it’s using common sense. Why do you think they want to own the mod just for the sake of owning it? That’s stupid.

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Your common sense is just guesswork with your personal bias convincing you that it must be true.

They want to own the mod and all involved copyright so that they don’t have to share profits, buy a license or accept a loss of opportunity. Nothing in the EULA says that your scenario is anymore likely than the one that I presented. Truth is that we don’t know so we should treat it as if they will do everything that the EULA permits. Which is everything.

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No, it’s based on real world facts. Blizzard already expressed an interest in preventing people from selling games based off their mods when they tried to sue Valve. Seriously, you’re not offering any alternative solutions. You’re just arguing for the sake of disagreement. Probably because you know a company wanting a cut from any profits made on mods of their games makes too much sense. Much like a musician wanting a cut when their song is used in a movie or some such. And God forbid Blizzard make a sensible business decision, because then you wouldn’t be able to hate them as much.

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Blizzard would have nothing do with the new game. No assets that they have made could obviously be used, EULA or no EULA. Only the name, design of characters, story, art, music… etc. creative that is covered by copyright and not produced by Blizzard would be usable from the mod.

This would be like a piano manufacturer making you sign an agreement that they own all original music that you play on that piano. And I am arguing because you are just wrong.

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86

It’s easy to explain, these are 2 different games, yout can’t compare them together. If you are disppointed with wc3r, and you prefer to play age of empires, no problem, just go and play it. I think your topic is just like a spam.

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Oh my goodness shut the f@#$ up Bellular. AOE 2 DE didn’t promised Remastered Cutscenes and or anything.

Honestly I am getting sick and tired of these f@#$ing youtubers spamming so many videos about Warcraft 3 Reforged, spouting the Refunded meme.

The message is sent. I don’t need new videos about this every day, its annoying, spam, and your just milking money out of Blizzard’s misfortune.

F@#$ Bellular, Angry Joe, Yong Yea, Heelsvsbabyface, The Quartering, and all these youtubers that makes low effort clickbait garbage.

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AOE 4 is being made by Relic…and they f@#$ed up Dawn of War 3 by turning it into a MOBA.

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I don’t need to hear the truth 24/7 though. It was fine the first day or week, but now I an getting annoyed by it.

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Wow what a read, honestly you cannot really compare the two games, as coming from the AOE Closed NDA alpha all the way though release, there was a total different mindset. When they remastered AOE and AOE II everything was on the chopping block as far as it goes, the reason why everything could be re balanced as they used the source material to draw from outside of that the engines are new all the art assets the music, AI , library support editor so forth.

You could not take a previous AOE map and run it at all in AOE DE and AOE II DE they are binary not comparable, you may as well call them different games. But anyways All of the players new and old that were invited to the beta’s NDA or otherwise had a voice and the development team listened.

Now here is the problem with WC III Reforged ,it is not a bad game at all. Really comparing AOE to WC III is completely different, while they both maybe strategic RTS games AOE draws it’s Campaigns from Historical Battles etc. Warcraft III tells a narrative, Warcraft 3’s 3d art does not age well at all , where AOE DE and AOE II DE use what we call Orthographic 3d. While what you see in the game is a 2d isometric output all the models, backgrounds, building etc are rendered in 3d but output in 2d space, hence why you get such a high level of detail also which allows full 3d destructive modeling at 60 fps.

Where blizzard went wrong is listening to the .5 percent of the player base that said they did not want blizzard to remaster the game they wanted reforge to just be WC III with a fresh coat after blizzard was already going one direction, you can actually see this by looking at the data between reforged and classic, other then the binary code base for the reforge engine, it pretty much just a slightly upgraded version of the WC III engine from so long ago, hence why the classic engine uses about 1.2 gb (same as pre reforged. ). The difference is that the classic and reforged have to partly work together, hence why you cant live switch the graphics in real time they are actually using slightly modified separate engines that also work in tandem. It is also why reforged cant actually grow beyond WCIII as it has to keep compatibility as that is what the player-base wanted.

TLDR, Blizzard did listen to its community, however it listened to the wrong section of the community. Sadly it is the same thing that happened to CCP, they tried all these new things but the old playerbase was so up in arms over it they never actually made any real changes, now they got bought out by another company. Point is stagnation kills innovation and the WC III community Blizzard got feedback from just wanted fresh paint. That is what we got.

Don’t be mad at Blizzard be mad at the focus group that consisted of the Top players that wanted a fresh coat of pant that they could use the old cheats etc stuff in to just re dominate the leader-boards in reforged.

Warcraft III Refunded alright, however it was Blizzard that should have asked for a Refund on the focus group and the community.

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97

Lan in AOE is under servers in Lobby Browser.

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I was looking forward to Warcraft 3 Reforge, but I am going to wait till they make a better version than it is now (I do not want to ruin my good memories of how I felt when the old warcraft came out) - I must say I am impressed of how good Aoe 2 DE is. People form those days is starting to play the game again and I am catching up on old gaming friends from the old days. So thank you Microsoft for making a great game.

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I get the feeling that Aoe 2 DE is made by people who love the game and want to share the love with everybody. On the other hand is the Blizzard team who did the remake of Warcraft 3, and here I get the feeling it was made by people who had no personal relationship with the game they were remaking - it is important that people are not just programmers but passionate programmers! This shows you why!

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101

That and it would take roughly 5-10 seconds to load in everything.

World Editor opening some custom map in SD mode → 800 MB RAM, 200 MB VRAM.
World Editor opening same custom map in HD mode → 6 GB RAM, 4 GB VRAM (probably more, my GPU maxed out…).

Even with a SSD and good processor the loading time difference was over 20 seconds just due to the graphic change. Yes there are solutions to this, but even those solutions would still take a good 5 seconds.

We got Lua, DDS support, Hundreds of new trigger and scripting functions, etc. Reforged added a lot that people seem to not understand was added.

Also Reforged delivered what it set out to be. It is a remaster not an entirely new game. Blizzard is almost certainly working on an entirely new RTS game already…

Warcraft III Reforged was a remaster, not a remake. There is utterly no point in remaking Warcraft III as one might as well just make Warcraft IV or StarCraft III then.

Part of the issue is they miss sold the Reforged DLC as a remake. Yes some campaign missions are remade, but most are just remasters. Most of the promised remake features were dropped such as incorporating WoW lore characters that were missing from RoC and TFT. This was partly by fan request since people want Warcraft III to remain Warcraft III, and not World of Warcraft the RTS.

You mean people like William or Kam who worked on Warcraft III Reforged? The people who joined Blizzard partly because they liked Warcraft III?

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104

A remaster is usually the same game with a higher resolution on everything and maybe remastered sounds. This is still more than a remaster because they remade all the models, textures and effects.