You must see this! (WC3 Reforge vs Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition)

So can I use my very old Age of Empires 2 disc CD keys to play with remastered players? No? Well I can with Warcraft III…

#How not to remaster a game.

Also one cannot really compare the two. Age of Empires 2 was developed by highly skilled software engineers pushing the limits of what computers were capable of. All graphics with CPU computed on a single core single thread processor system. Outside of some minor optimizations (often in the form of removing old optimizations), the same old graphic code would be good for fully HD graphics due to how much faster modern CPUs are. This is basically how Simutrans, an open source video game, does their graphics and even at 4k CPU load is not that much.

On the other hand Warcraft III was written using cutting edge experimental technology such as real time 3D graphic acceleration. Not only were the developers learning as they went, but they also had a much more wide general programming experience after having worked on games for a variety of consoles with different instruction sets and different graphic acceleration. Needless to say the result was a notorious buggy mess with a ton of crashes and oversights. For example incorrect colour management during the graphic workflow resulting in broken lighting and blending behaviour, something a spire based game like Age of Empires II did not really have to deal with.

Where as with Age of Empires 2 one just had to create the HD graphics and change some draw call parameters and it will work fantastically thanks to the power of modern CPUs. With Warcraft III they had to change the entire graphic pipeline on top of remaking the graphics and fixing a lot of long running bugs and adding new fan requested features.

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That Youtuber intentionally altered WC3:R’s graphics/gameplay speed to make it look like crap.

Sad but true.

I’m not even going to bother watching that video.

Let me be clear. AoE 2 is not a 3D game. It is much easier to remaster compared to a fully 3D title like say, Age of Mythology. A proper comparison if you want to compare the gameplay styles would be Starcraft: Remastered vs AoE 2: Remastered.

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And AOE2 wins that, easily. SC2 Remastered did graphics, AOE2 did that + ALL THE OTHER THINGS.

And is still cheaper. Least in my country. $21.95 SC vs 17.21 AOE2

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They know very well cant hook up everyone old WC3 players.
We.gamers had free souls…(do what we want) .
Gameing industry is not easy job(they know can fail or do great job).
Now many of you start hate the game and everyone which work on WC3 ,a befor you like is so much, “what a strange human race”.
You never thank you for his work,even if they work hard?!
Yeah…we gamers sometime can be unsparing even some peoples try his best work. That is we are gamers…sometime can rating high someone else job,and sometime hate so.much…
Of course in future they will change his way how to be released one game. We are human and always learn from our.mistakes,you are not humans too (gamers)?!

A lot of people missing the point of how Microsoft added features and modernized aspects of the game…all while Blizzard modernized nothing and took out features of their game all while FORCING people who bought the game over 18 years to “upgrade” to less features. I bought Warcraft 3 and TFT both on day 1 respectively and have long since lost my keys but I refuse to pay 30 dollars for a game that runs worse than it did in 2002 and has less features.

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Very weak argument since 90% of the complaints have absolutely nothing to do with the graphics, and, even if they were 2D graphics it wouldn’t stop them from “having” to cut all those features.

And you’d still have a lot of GBs on top of it because most of it comes from the textures.

Also. I’ve worked with 2D and 3D art and that those fluid 2D animations are definitely NOT easy to make and still have decent performance.
Easier than 3D, true, but not by much.

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So all those modern models, shaders, textures I must be imagining then?

A different feature set, yes, but not less.

For example before people could not use DDS textures in custom maps. Now one can.

Runs worse? I have played 1.32.1 classic quite a lot recently and performance is a flawless 60 FPS (my refresh rate).

Very easy for CPU to do as there is none of the complexity of handling sprite sheets and GPU draw calls. One of the reasons why Simutrans and many other 2D sprite based games do not use hardware acceleration. I doubt Age of Empires 2 Remastered Remastered does graphics much differently than when it was first released, or at least first remastered.

Perhaps so but that still doesnt excuse Blizzard for doing sub-par work with Reforged. While AoE2 is not 3D game, they did still much more polished/better job with remastering it, thats something that cannot be denied. Ofc we have to wait and see till AoE 3 till we can say how well they managed to do remastering a game that used 3D engine.

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Where is LAN in AOE2 DE? In reforged it exists.

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Guys I don’t know why u bother so much with graphics. Biggest reforge issue is mechanics. Once they fix hitboxes, campaign bugs, crashes and other stuff we can assume game is good. Graphics are not so important

Im actually really hoping (I know its likely fools hope) that Blizzard would look carefully what Microsoft is doing with Age of Empires and then say “lets do that, but in MUCH bigger way”…

So if anyone from Blizzard would read this, here is what you should do, if you REALLY want to show you care and make extra effort to come up from this:

At the very start of Blizzcon 2020:

1.Announce a clear roadmap how you will make Reforged the best it could be (completely remade ingame cutscenes, remade maps to represent more modern game design, possibly even remade CGI cutscenes)

2.Announce that the first two games (WC: Orcs and Humans and WC II: Tides of Darkness along with its expanion) are going to be COMPLETELY remade with the highest standards possible

3.Announce that after these you will begin your work with Warcraft IV and that you will gather suggestion and feedback from the fans where they would want Warcraft IV’s story to pick up and what they want from it storywise, gameplay wise, design wise…

I know Blizzard likely wont do any of these things, but Im just saying that if you REALLY want to show to your fans that you care, that you REALLY DO CARE and are willing to go extra mile to prove that, this is what you should do.

Warcraft’s lore and history is so rich and great that it deserves to be retold in best way possible and fans have clearly shown you that there is still demand for high quality RTS games. So this is your chance to not only show your fans that you care and that actions speak louder than words, but also revive Warcraft as RTS franchise in biggest way possible, which in best case scenario might even result higher increase in WoW subscriber numbers if you play your cards right.

Blizzard has the resources and I still believe, also the the TALENT to do this, its only a question of will.

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So…what custom games is AoEII backwards compatible with? Can you play tower defense on it?

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I don’t recall the community requesting those features, so… moot point.

You don’t recall the community wanting to play Tower Defense? Do you even play this game?

You’ve never seen a lobby for Green TD, or DBZ TD, or Wintermaul, Wintermaul Wars, Wintermaul One, Or any of the many other versions?

Yes the fact that AoEII is an RTS and only an RTS is a pretty damn big sticking point that is also probably what holds wc3 back unfortunately. backwards supporting maps means sticking to an engine that supports them.

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I said I don’t recall the AoE2 community asking for these features.
Maybe I should have been more specific.

Okay, but we’re on a Warcraft III forum, talking about how much better AoE II is.

It’s a fine RTS game, but i’d say only about 20-30% of my experience on wc3 has ever been the RTS game. Custom games are one of the big sellers.

You can remaster AoE II all you want but it will never have the same hurdles as wc3, because it’s scope is much smaller.

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It’s scope is what the community wants it to be.

Sorry but there is no denying that the devs showed so much more love for AoE2 DE despite what you all say.

Denying that is lunacy.

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I’m sorry, but denying that it’s harder to make a game that is backwards compatible with a custom game engine than it is to remake a game from scratch is in itself lunacy.

The scope of this game included the custom games. That was non-negotiable. So essentially the community of this game wouldn’t have been happy if they didn’t work, and the community of this game isn’t going to get what they want playing AoEII.

The AoEII remake is easy by comparison as well, because it doesn’t have to support anything the previous games had. At best it will just have a map editor that requires terrain conversion, no scripting.

At the end of the day, if what I wanted was to play custom maps, warcraft III reforged may be a .5 but AoE II is a 0 because it literally cannot play custom maps

It’s basically trying to advertise to the wrong playerbase entirely. I have not played a single standard map since I started playing again.

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