Warcraft III: Reforged PTR Version 1.36 -- Updated May 3

PTR Discussion and Bug Report
89

HH is too strong against every single race, it’s the best unit in the game by a huge far, super cheap, and super fast to make + just 2 food with insane high DPS.
The best unit in the game by far. Combined it with BM and TC stomp it’s game over. You also have the best heal in the game in the SH, so i don’t see a single reason why a ranged unit with great range, and the stats i already mention, needs to super tanky.
Ghouls are 340 HP, so HH needs to be lower 100%.

Also 25 HP is nothing. What are people smoking exactly?
This is around 6.6%, which is not even 10% nerf.
On a 10 HH, this is - 250HP, which is nothing again.

If anything this nerf is too little.
BM needs to be nerfed too. Wind Walk is too strong, as well as Critical at LVL 2.

To the people claiming cannibalizing change is great, explain me then, when exactly was cannibalizing EVER used?
You can used them against AI, not against real player. No one would still use that feature.
It’s useless. Just rework cannibalizing completely.
Currently it’s 100% useless, it’s not practical at all in a real matchups.

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90
  • It is necessary to significantly expand the graphic parameters, add shader support and anti-aliasing.

Also work on graphics and textures to expand the texture palette in the editor and the ability to load textures directly from World of Warcraft. I like how the graphics selection options for starcraft2 are made, perhaps it would be worth doing the same for Warcraft3 and raising and improving it a little.

91

One more thing on balance: orc hall was given one extra food in previous patch because it was impossible for orc to go against NE in that year. Now, NE loses night vision in T1. So I guess it is time to roll this one food back to previous version.

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92

Also reduce UD expanding to what it was previous. The nerf + 10 seconds was absolutely unnecessary, as UD has the worst expanding potential.

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93

Just some comment towards human change.

The arcane tower’s buff is way too much and will cause issues, like overpowered tower rush or making hero harassment almost infeasible. The immolation has got nerfed already while the peasant’s health has been increased recently. So huge tower buff should not be introduced at the same time. Human need more mid-game options.

The sundering blade nerf diminished the utility and micro reward of knight as a tier 3 unit. Just turn it into an upgrade at barrack while keep its effect unchanged, and move animal war training to the gryphon aviary, that would be a fair trade-off to slightly lowers knight’s strength without lossing the potential. And from gameplay perspective, 10% damage increase against one armor type as a passive skill for an ultimate level unit looks quite boring and stingy.

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94

Blade Master, Pandaren, KotGrove and Demon Hunter feel boring and lame to go against.
Low skill required to use them yet they provide great rewards - but it takes a lot of skill to counter them and often leads to boring stale gameplay of hiding units at goldmine.

Please take a look at chronically underused heroes like Dreadlord etc.
Perhaps increasing their speed from the atrocious 270 to 300 at least.

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95

It wasn’t used that’s why it is now buffed to be used. It’s not hard to comprehend.

HH nerf before zerkermode is diminishing the orc army, esp with undead getting dark ranger than can be healed, statues and convert to skellies. Given the cost and lack of moving statues to heal for orc it reduces the army drastically. You don’t seem to understand the compositions to claim it’s a valid nerf.

What would be better instead of HP is reducing either damage or Range which achieves what you’re talking about (if its the same thing).

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97

You kidding, right? You already have the best heals in the game by far. And i counter that UD doesn’t have mana reg in their shop.
UD doesn’t have Scrolls of Speed for free. And UD surely doesn’t have Tiny GreatHall, aka instant expo at T3.
UD also doesn’t have a free maphack, aka WindWalk on BM, and also zero cost of mana Critical that outdamage every single UD spell by a lot, and again cost NO mana and can trigger 10 times in literally 10 seconds.
Should i even mention the millions of uneeded disables for Orcs?

And what cost exactly ? HH are 140/20/2, one of the cheapest units in the game, and one of the fastest to produce.
And again ranged units, that cost 2 supply, should not have super high dmg, high range, to be 2 food, extra cheap, extra fast(with TC aura), and also being 475HP. with TB upgrade.

Ghouls are 340 HP for god sake, and they are melee units.
Troll Berserkes are by far the best units in the game, and should have never been that strong.
And yes they should absolutely be nerfed.
And again this is 6.6% nerf, which is absolutely not enough, and people should not complain about it.

As far as Cannibalize goes, how exactly the supposed buff is going to make it useful, explain it to me ? This is 500% useless ability, that have zero, and i mean zero play in a competitive game, hell even between 2 average players.
Even if they make it for free, it’s still going to be useless.

98

Not true, they are king of anti-air, frost wyrms make towers Unable to target! Did you got it? Unable to target = Tower Useless !!!
Banshee can convert in seconds enemy best units.
Necro Wagon - is my nightmare - massed I never see in 4x4 someone be able to dispel them!

Ghouls are considered like workers, their main goal is to gather wood!
Second goal: Replace Militia, so little def + help early creep = So Ghouls are not an army unit!

Is good that they can attack, human has militia - but ghouls are still stronger, and for other 2 races: Peons or Wisps what can do? Nothing !
So be happy UD got better workers than other races!
Why you stop at ghouls when UD have lot of units?
Fiend - one of best ranged unit in all game. Web + fast heal.
CL one of best hero, Lich also insane damage, DK best aura in game, also DL can be very annoying with sleep + aura.

Just note: since 2 years most of the patches made UD stronger and stronger.

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99

At this point you are trolling, and i will just ignore you.

100

I admit that:
UD Nerubian tower range could be increased - is too small. I prefer a human mate to build me an Arcane tower instead.

And if you want to master UD is really hard to play. But once you mastered, is unstoppable.
If you want to learn UD: check the style of Happy (Dmitry K.) :muscle:t2:

101

Can you guys please implement this feature from Dota 2 to bring the game up to modern standards of game design?

I would start playing it daily if I had more modern controls for the micro:

Holding a hot key while controlling a hero, sends commands to all combat units in a given area around that hero. So you you don’t have to bother with control groups at times.

102
  • I talked about UD, increase pls range of Nerubian Tower - is just too small.
  • If you nerfed Bats Liquid Fire - than nerf also Frost Wyrm ability to Freeze.
  • Wisp detonation - range too small now, (damage can decrease with range if you want) but increase range.
  • Wisp detonation - follow enemy unit at least on short distance.
  • Wisp detonation - damage, minimum equal to L1 Spirit Wolve’s life.
  • Warden - reduce manna cost for L3 blink ability to 3 or 5 manna.
  • Nerf BM Wind Walk invisibility - use more manna, or increase cooldown timer.
103

And with armor type medium and no armor - life just 375.

HH need 2 food because they are so slim-fit, living in woods - not a lot of food there, while Rifles are more fat (535 life) eat 3 food, but living in farms. Knights eat 4 food because the horse should eat also something!

I agree with this, please do Not nerf HH ! :slight_smile:

Why again nerf all items? People will loose interest to creep for items or buy those from shops. Even the name Greater Manna - just 200? You should not use that Greater word anymore! (Better I find an ally with moon well, and I go there for free! )

=>Most of the balance things are good as they are now before this patch!

104

Agree with most of these comments. But a few remarks,

Decrease dmg per second from 14/24/36 to 12/20/30: it seems too much to me, maybe 12/22/32. I agree that immolation is a bit strong, but not to need a 20% decrease in damage. I think these numbers are more reasonable. But this is one of those changes you have to test and let meta settle before you can tell for sure.

Arcane Tower is already powerful enough: I would disagree that Arcane is powerful enough (at least if u compare it with UD towers or cemented ORC towers), it is decent enough XD. But HU does need some better base defence, that is for sure. Maybe consider giving the town hall a garrison capacity for peons and/or make towers build next to the hall stronger than regular towers (and this can be better with keep and castle). That would help HU without making tower pushes stronger. It may also incentive more the 1 base play. Dont know if it can be implemented though.

The value of the item will drop a lot, especially in comparison to the circlet: I tend to agree. But I would not mind seeing this change tested in 1.36. If it is too much, it can be reverted. At the moment is almost always the best item. I think that +4 claws may still be the best or second-best item in some situations/for some heroes. That would imply that the item was not nerfed into the ground. This would mean it is not one of the best items, which is not necessarily bad.

Besides these changes, I still would like to see Lich nerfed as a 1st hero. It is crazy strong as a late-game hero (I’m ok with that), but then it should not be that good as a 1st hero. Maybe decrease its movement speed a little or nerf its starting attributes a bit. Alternatively, change the range of nova to match (for example) entangle. I also think either UD natural defences should be nerfed or its fast expo should be nerfed. To have an unattackable base made sense back in the day when UD was not able to expand, but this situation has been reverted.

I would also like changes that allow a wider variety of 1st hero choices, like DL or Pala. Not MK, that is a super-strong hero in the late game, and should not be a regular 1st hero. This can be achieved by tweaking some starting attributes and/or movement speed, which can have a massive impact on the early game but does not affect the late game much.

ps: If some UD players keep complaining about weak ghouls and not having clarity. Can always give that race footmans instead of ghouls and acos the ability to harvest lumber (but just 10 at a time!) and the human shop instead of the UD shop (so say goodbye to skeletons, a good orc and scrolls of healing).

ps2: agree with ag3nt, don’t be afraid of overbuffing humans. We already had the kotg patch, the CL patch, the FS&hh patch. I wouldn’t mind having stormbolt stun during a ridiculous amount of time or having WE slow enemies with their attacks :smiley:

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105

thank you for the ballance updates. sounds very good and well adressing the current meta.

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106

Weakening trolls is a misconception. Nom stop you are weakening the orcs. Pathetic !

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107

How is an arcane tower buff going to save human from not even having representatives in tournaments? You’ll give the most versatitle race (night elf) more options with IMMO but all you do is nerf human and give us scraps back. what is going on

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108

Important to whom?

SC2 and WC3 are fundamentally different games with different game systems, engine features and mechanics. There is no realistic way to take an SC2 map and “convert” it to WC3. Such a thing would also have to be developed entirely from scratch and it would likely be very expensive if it was possible at all.

109

bloodlusted troll spam is still OP as heck. If and only if you know it’s coming , you can even the odds with units that can dispel (mainly priests as human), but even then, they’re quite strong still and they don’t die easily enough to justify their high DPS.

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