Serious question. Is what they are doing legal?

General Discussion
42

Thats a point of contention. IIRC, preorders were already available at that time, so yes it very much was an advertisement.

Besides, you failed to address some of the bigger concerns such as the “breaking” of classic WC3, multiplayer issues, the claiming of copy right over any community created custom games (DOTA salt much?), the banning of people seeking refunds, etc.

There are core features that WERE promised that are clearly not in the game. The question for the courts will be, does “games as a service” mean companies have an indefinite amount of time to deliver on what was promised, or must they be available on launch day.

43

Thats a point of contention. IIRC, preorders were already available at that time, so yes it very much was an advertisement.

Yes, definitely a point of contention, but yet the Stratholme video was during Blizzcon, where it was clearly said the game can be changed at any point. You know this and so does anyone who beta tests or even looks sneakpeek’s of games… hell, look at Anthem and they don’t have a class action, yet that was massively bad.

Besides, you failed to address some of the bigger concerns such as the “breaking” of classic WC3, multiplayer issues, the claiming of copy right over any community created custom games (DOTA salt much?), the banning of people seeking refunds, etc."

I did not mention those concerns because they were not brought up on this particular thread, but I am aware of them. Yes, they do suck. We don’t know however if Blizzard plans to separate the WC3:R and WC3 Classic platforms so users are not forced to DL 30GB of space. We also do not know if they’ll fix or bring back anything that was purged. We need to be patient and wait for them to say something rather than jump on a lawsuit bangwagon for one reason alone: You file the paperwork for the class action and somewhere along the lines, they fix all the issues and not only did you pay 30-40 dollars for a game, you paid an attorney a few grand for no reason.

There are core features that WERE promised that are clearly not in the game. The question for the courts will be, does “games as a service” mean companies have an indefinite amount of time to deliver on what was promised, or must they be available on launch day.

Which core features are these? I am not challenging you, I am legitimately asking you. I know the “new” cinematics was in error due to misinformation as only the intro cinematic was to be redone and the rest simply updated for 4K quality.

Look forward to exchange thoughts!

45

And what would they say about the removal of LAN? They are forcing RoC & TFT users into the new client. The new client does not support LAN.

Hey Eloba! Hopefully they’ll say “We’re bringing it back”?

Let’s wait and see… if not then we can all raise our concerns. Let’s look at games like FFXIV and BF2 that had a lot of changes which the community did not like and turned into a PR nightmare… those games are pretty great now and the fans got what they wanted.

To be honest I don’t think adding LAN would be that difficult anyway, but I do agree with you that they should bring it back.

1 Like
46

The point is, people could make purchases of this product based on that video, therefore its an ad. Weather or not that loldisclaimer at the bottom holds up is a question for a judge. Regardless, I think it would be pretty easy to claim it was an ad.

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but aren’t people having to go thru EXTRAORDINARY lengths just to keep the classic version of WC3? And of course that fails to address the functionality of multiplayer game modes available for classic WC3. I think its pretty much a fact that Blizz broke core mechanics of a product that was previously working as intended. Even if they attempt some migration of the two games, they will have to reinstate the mechanics they broke.

LOL

No, anything they have to say should have been said before the game “launched.” They knew the issues, they chose silence. They knew it was lacking core features, launched anyway. They knew they were breaking classic, launched anyway. This apologist mindset it exactly what they take advantage of time and again.

And the “paid an attorney a few grand” bit? Not a thing in this situation. The attorneys would almost certainly be paid with a portion of the settlement.

Im not sure what the entire list is at this point, the biggest offenders I’ve seen are multiplayer related such as ladders and what not.

47

No. If we ever want quality products from the giant corporations, we have to stop accepting these pathetically low standards of quality they constantly dish out. Not to sound too much like Jim Sterling or anything, but “tRiPle AaA!!!11”

1 Like
48

Hey Daeld,

So I want to be 100% accurate in everything I reply with. But I want to let you know that I dealt with a civil lawsuit against a company called “Hudson Hyundai” where the falsely advertised their product on T.V. It was STILL VERY hard to prove it even though it was right there on television.

So knowing all that, it is why I am very skeptical about a class action even being taken seriously.

So that being said:

The point is, people could make purchases of this product based on that video, therefore its an ad. Weather or not that loldisclaimer at the bottom holds up is a question for a judge. Regardless, I think it would be pretty easy to claim it was an ad.

That is not a legitimate ad since it was not played by Blizzard, instead it was played by Streamers who were demoing (not a finished product and subject to change) during Blizzcon. So it cannot be taken as an advertise… it just can’t.

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but aren’t people having to go thru EXTRAORDINARY lengths just to keep the classic version of WC3? And of course that fails to address the functionality of multiplayer game modes available for classic WC3. I think its pretty much a fact that Blizz broke core mechanics of a product that was previously working as intended. Even if they attempt some migration of the two games, they will have to reinstate the mechanics they broke.

Yes some core mechanics are bugged/broken. They may fix it like they’ve done with other issues in the past. This requires time. We aren’t even at a 72 hour mark since the release. I am almost certain they will have a PR statement in the coming weeks because this is a PR nightmare for them. I can’t give you specifics because I am not a developer =( I just hope these things are fixed or re-implemented since some players hold it dear.

LOL

No, anything they have to say should have been said before the game “launched.” They knew the issues, they chose silence. They knew it was lacking core features, launched anyway. They knew they were breaking classic, launched anyway. This apologist mindset it exactly what they take advantage of time and again.

And the “paid an attorney a few grand” bit? Not a thing in this situation. The attorneys would almost certainly be paid with a portion of the settlement.

If this argument goes in front of a judge he will dismiss you right away. You do not know what happened in house and neither do I. We can’t make this sort of argument and try and pass it as “facts”. We’re genuinely worried and want the best for a product we love. Let’s hope it gets fixed, and you know what? If it doesn’t, I’ll be right there next to you shoulder to shoulder damning them.

As for the attorney bit… maybe people should find an attorney willing to do it before saying “Yeah we can do it and they’ll take a portion!” trust me, it’s easier said than done. Attorney’s want to be 100% sure with solid evidence before representing anyone. There’s too many moving parts here and too much misinformation from both the community and Blizzard that need to be squared away.

Im not sure what the entire list is at this point, the biggest offenders I’ve seen are multiplayer related such as ladders and what not.

Getting a list and putting it together, with a timeline might be a good idea before speaking of class actions if you want anyone to take it seriously.

49

So long as they provide you a refund, there is no legal recourse. You can argue a refund, if they deny, argue more and they will oblige. You just have to push a little, kill em with kindness.

Also give them ‘I’m afraid I must insist on my demand, accordingly to COUNTRY consumer laws. I can ask for refund for a defective product, especially when it includes misleading promotional material.’

50

I’m nearly certain Blizz streamed it themselves on their own stream, and on their own Twitch channel.

Time on which side tho? Before or AFTER the purchase is made? Thats a decision for the courts.

Don’t see how this matters. If the product wasn’t finished, Blizz should have delayed the launch. They sold an incomplete product, its their fault it was incomplete, and they could have delayed the launch at any time.

Having a strong case, proving a case, and convincing other people you actually proved your case and not the other side are all very different things. IMO, there seems like more than enough of a case to at least force Blizz to the bargaining table. But I didn’t preorder, I waited. I don’t have time to dump into MMOs like I used to, so Ive been playing more and more non-persistent games and even single player games. This was certainly something on my radar. Given the sentiment of the players, the lack of communication from Blizz etc., I made a good choice in holding off.

I have no personal interest in any suit against Blizz, but that doesn’t mean I don’t or shouldn’t care about the state of the games industry. Launches like this are practically commonplace anymore, and IMO its unacceptable. I am not an attorney, but I was in law school and have dealt with suits and contracts throughout my professional career. I think there is certainly something here worth pursuing for those that want to.

I’d be willing to bet that multiple have already been made. This is too big of a story.

2 Likes
51

Tell that to the people getting bans for asking for refunds and trying to help others get refunds. LOADS of reports of Blizz actively trying to prevent people from being able to refund at all.

52

With the amount of legal power behind them, I doubt a class action lawsuit would hold. They can twist meaning of words to make it seem like they fulfilled every advertised promise, because in one way or another they did. And even promotional material not matching final product is common place and not very legally sound.

Look up Nintendo MLB lawsuit. Courts tossed it out the window with no appeal.

53

What Eu? There is not going to be eu soon. Screw eu.

54

I’m nearly certain Blizz streamed it themselves on their own stream, and on their own Twitch channel.

If you are referring to the Stratholme in-game cinematic, it was 150% by streamers at Blizzcon. You can look at a few threads in the forums that have it. Now if you are referring to the intro cinematic, it was said in 2018 that the promo cinematic was a complete remaster, the rest of the cinematics would be “reforged” into 4K quality, which they were.

Time on which side tho? Before or AFTER the purchase is made? Thats a decision for the courts.

First of all, all this may be fixed by then, and if it isn’t then yeah the courts may have something to say but it will never get that far. It hasn’t been 72 hours since release and people are speaking of lawsuits. The first thing an attorney (from experience) will ask you is “How much did you lose?”, “Did you get it back”?, “You did? You don’t have a case. You lost 0 value.”

Don’t see how this matters. If the product wasn’t finished, Blizz should have delayed the launch. They sold an incomplete product, its their fault it was incomplete, and they could have delayed the launch at any time.

Of course this matters because it would be part of evidence… “Completion” is in the eyes of a beholder. You will find A LOT of people on this forum and in-game that enjoy the game and feel that it met their expectations. A lot of others don’t. It would be hard to define completion in court. You do not decide if it is complete and neither do I. It would be very difficult =( If that was the case Anthem would have a class action lawsuit and that hasn’t occurred, remember that mess? That game was LITERALLY false advertising on a monumental level.

I’d be willing to bet that multiple have already been made. This is too big of a story.

Hopefully it’ll be published somewhere because right now I can tell you there’s no case here. Too many different sides and Blizzard hasn’t made a public statement. Again I am not challenging you nor questioning your logic in anyway shape or form. Sadly, I’ve been through this irl and it sucks and it’s a headache, and the law is more flexible than a Chinese gymnast.

55

they will be adding stuff im guessing its not going to be all at once but overtime. stop with these forum posts and threads you really don’t understand the companies.

1 Like
56

Don’t speak sense, how dare you?

57

Following up my post above, even if you think Blizzard lied, here is how this would work in legal terms

  • with 4+ hours of reforged in-game cutscenes”

Cutscenes were Reforged. The definition of Reforge is defined by Blizzard, so if it means adding a couple bits of grass, then that is what it is. Technically it would not be a lie, legally speaking.

" * Updated UI*"

New icons were added, grid hotkeys etc.

2018 UI was always WIP, and not advertised on their website.

“* Instant access to classic Warcraft III (Reign of Chaos and The Frozen Throne)”*

Where is the lie here legally speaking? Everyone does have access to this with Reforged. Is it working as intended? Maybe not, but that would not hold water in court.

1 Like
58

lol. I bet these people complaining don’t understand the situation that’s actually going on behind the scenes which anyone can find out.

59

I agree, but I prefer to be a devils advocate because that’s what we need in 2020. Sadly too many people hear one thing and run with it. Anything having to do with courts and legality is very difficult for people to understand and sadly I’ve lived it the last two years and it’s a nightmare, especially when you know you’re in the right and all the evidence you give suggests you’re in the right, but legal loopholes make that difficult. =(

1 Like
60

Well said Triceron. People keep saying “They broke their promises! The game is unfinished!” Who defines a completed product but the developers themselves? STEAM is a great example of unfinished products going to the consumer and no one raises an eyebrow a majority of the time. Thanks for posting that! =)

61

Blizzard literally streamed everything from Blizzcon themselves…

Reports of Blizz banning people and actively trying to prevent people from getting refunds…

No. It would be maybe the single most significant point to be made in the case. Its not subjective.

Not trying to prove completion. The point is proving INcompletion. Easy argument to make, but it would up to the courts.

Sorry, but I don’t think you’ve shown anything that takes away from the points others have made. “Having a case” does not mean guaranteed win, but regardless, this smoke has fire.

62

They streamed a WIP product and said such blatantly. They would have covered their butts from every angle before they show off anything at Blizzcon, its not so easy to legally say you got swindled by false advertising if you are talking about a refundable pre-purchase and WIP demos. There is nothing binding here.

Plus you probably waived half your legal rights through accepting their preorder TOS which you prolly didn’t read. Even EU law is the closest you can get them on, and frankly the fact they sent out emails notifying refunds for preorders covers them quite well.