The collision boxes are not the same, and they’re hardcoded in the game. WC3 uses square shaped collision, meaning you can literally box a unit with surround. SC2 and Heroes of the Storm uses circular collision, meaning they will slip around and make it harder to box. This means units need to move faster and you need more units to properly surround.
This is beyond pathing AI, this is literally how the games are different. This is why a WC3 mod for SC2 can not replace actual WC3 gameplay.
Show me how a game with few players can’t be played at a high level.
I’m sure, for instance, Quake 1 multiplayer isn’t that huge anymore. And yet there was a lot of depth and skill required in it. So just because people aren’t playing it, it’s not a competitive game?
There is no such unit. Have you tried using Hellbats to surround? How many do you need to properly surround a Queen?
In WC3, you can surround a hero with 5 grunts. You can’t do that with 6 hellbats in SC2. If in SC2 a Queen can continually avoid surround, imagine trying to trap a Hero using that same pathing.
Surrounding would be very easy if you have high-movement speed units, very hard if you have low-movement speed units. So who wins the surround? The faster moving unit. If the Hero moves faster, good luck getting the surround.
SC2 doesn’t need you to use 6 hellbats to surround because you can easily make 20 marines and use bio-ball to push. Surrounding is mostly used by Zerg, and almost only by zerglings. There are not many melee units in SC2 and there are no Hero units to try to trap, so these are very different games.
In SC2, the purpose of surrounding is not to trap or limit any unit. The purpose is to deal maximum potential damage; more zealots or more zerglings surround = more damage dealt to the enemy.
WC3 surround is very different. Everything is harder to kill, so your purpose is to use units to trap a unit so you can secure a kill and prevent enemy from microing low-HP unit away. You gain EXP for secure kills, so surround is important.
Sure you can’t surround 6 hellbats but 6 hellions yes … there is a reason for upgrade hellions to hellbats. As i see you are very bad player in sc2, you need better micro because more hellions more hard and you will need more zergling too but if your micro is really nice you will need less zergling.
And surround units is in every game from sc2, the problem is just you can’t understand a rts in high level. If you wanna kill Queens you need surround or the player will hide the queen in the mineral line and that will create tons of time for defend the queen, for example. There is a lot of situations.
Also the 5 grunts don’t kill the hero with 1 hit, like in sc2 you kill zergling with 1 shot but with 3 helions and have damage area, much more hard. And you have a free spell that give immune.
But that is why the surround in WC3 is more important, and why the collision should stay the way it is.
WC3 does not have many fast units like Hellion. WC3 does not have a lot of early splash-damage units like Hellion. This is not comparable unless you are adding Hellion to WC3.
You need to be able to surround with grunts or footmen. So think of it that way - if Grunt has better AI and circle (smooth) collision, then how would you trap an enemy hero? It would be WAY harder because the hero can buy boots and you will almost never be able to surround them now.
WC3 is different because of square hitbox. If you use a peon to block a Hero path, they will treat the peon like a brick-wall - Hero stops for a bit and tries to dance left-or-right to move around the Peon. If the Peon micros well, you can block the Hero completely. SC2 would not be able to do this - Hero will move around Peon easily every time. At most, you block it for half-a-second, but the Hero will easily slip past after that.
So you can no longer use strategies to block enemy hero with single units. This is a HUGE change if you ever watch pro WC3 games where unit blocking micro is a big part of the game. This is why players like Happy can run into a fight with 20HP Death Knight and still win, because he baits the enemy to target his DK but he uses skeletons to block them, all while his heroes nuke down the enemy units and hero. This would be impossible in SC2.
For example surround units is very silver-gold league, the crazy stuff can be for example marine split wich are in Grand master level-master
This x_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2wmdLr0U1E you will never see this kind of skill in wc3 due to the engine.
Yes, you will never see because of the engine differences that make it so Starcraft style of micro will rarely be seen because instead there’s micro more appropriate for Warcraft 3.
Yeah, keep surrounding things… what a interesting thing
Im done with you
Blizzard maked tons of improve in the engine post-launch for this kind of micro and you think is just is different LMAOOoOoOoOoOo
If you think that’s the only nuance or intricacy to unit control in Warcraft 3, I don’t think you understand Warcraft 3 melee gameplay as much as you think you might.
When have you ever used Marine Split strategy in WC3? That doesn’t exist in WC3. Melee units have so much HP that Ranged units can not kill them before they get in range. They will all fight in melee at some point, which is why you need melee units of your own to protect the Ranged units
Marines deal enough damage to kill many melee units before they reach melee range. Marines have Stim which lets them reposition quickly, and fast-attack speed meaning you can stutter step easily. What units in WC3 can stutter step as fast as Marines? This is not how WC3 is played.
So you are suggesting SC2 tactic for WC3. Why don’t you give WC3 example instead? How does better pathing improve WC3 strategy?
Banegling is the counter to marines kid marine is light and banegling kill very easy the light thing with big splash damage but the ‘’ melee ‘’ unit in this case is the marauder, he maked 4 Marauder as a shield for the explotion while he kill one by one the banegling.
Sure with his god-like marine split, for some reason he have that name.
There is no baneling counter to Keeper/Hunts strategy. There is no hard counters like SC2 where you can kill the enemy force in under 3 seconds if you have the right unit combination.
WC3 fights last minutes. Units death = EXP, making each kill count. You don’t just throw away units at the enemy. That is why surround and escaping is so much more important.
You bought WC3, right? You played the game right? Why can’t you talk WC3 then. Give me examples of how better pathing improves WC3 strategy
How does better pathing help Dreadlord/Ghoul combo if they will not be able to surround an Archmage with boots who easily escapes?
Just because it’s a different flavour of RTS and unit control doesn’t make it bad. You just don’t like it, which is okay and fine. But maybe you shouldn’t change core gameplay elements (again, in terms of player input that will dictate skill level and success in said gameplay) that are a result of the engine.