Except by the fact that you are the only one knowing that the software really exists OR that this is what the final product will look like (ok maybe the text will be green instead of blue but that’s not the important).
On the other side there is nothing. By nothing it means:
Something that Blizzard promises users will have in change of what? their non-refunding? loyalty? BUY the game again?
So logically there are 2 interpretations for it:
I show you something that is a preview of what it will be. In a good faith you buy it, you get the product that you saw. Then, if you don’t know or don’t understand how to use it, that’s a different topic… (I’m sure you had cases of people complaining for some product you sold them too)
I show you something that is a preview of what it will never be. You buy it. You get scammed. Oh wait, that was the purpose of reforged isn’t it?
The “buy” covers all kind of fake advertising induced behavior, like advocating for them or sadly waiting until you can’t get your refund anymore.
It’s not a work in progress if there is no work and if you sell it, it’s a scam. It should be clear no?
So basically, doing the mockups has a double edge and Blizzard got hit by it again, whatever their policies and procedures are.
Funny thing, if you remember the original box of WC3, the one with the orc pushing the catapult, the game looked a lot worse than the actual product.
i said posting “screenshots” of something is no proof of it existing, as it can be plain photoshop made with no actual developing background whatsoever.
you claimed those “developer updates” were no fakes. but indeed they are for what we know. its made in photoshop and nothing is “in engine” - its proven 100% for the august update to be a pure photoshop composing. nothing is real with these screenshots - and as the july one shows similar signs of resolution mismatch, its highly doubtful this is a geniune “work in progress” shot either. all they present in the screenshots posted in the july and august developer updates is purely cooked up in photoshop and is not being implemented and screenshotted in a live web app whatsoever. not being a picture of something, but a mockup, at best, makes it a fake.
we never saw those profiles in a video, we never had a patch release indicating blizzard is actually doing anything (like bringing a “dummy” profile button into the live client), and just weeks after publishing those “updates” the team got disbanded.
all we have is vague walls of text, made up screenshots and tons of promises though yet have to fulfill a single one made in those developer updates.
now you’re running in circles. how much “not finished” is a completely made up photoshop composing trying really hard to be a screenshot showing the “work in progress”? this is, at best, a concept piece, if you’re trying really hard to believe blizzard is in fact not putting another big fat lie on the table. it shows no actual in engine / web app content. and even a geniuine concept piece is no guarantee for anything to be real/existing/in development.
I definitely don’t want to delve into the state at release and suprises that came with it. I’m with everyone who was upset, and for many of the same reasons.
I was only referring to the attempt to restore missing features after release (the features listed in the developer articles). It’s just those particular things which has some evidence suggesting that it is/was real before the plug was pulled.
Again, and for the last time, no.
With no one truly knowing what has gone on behind the scenes, there is:
What can be seen through multiple media of over the months. All of which fits together to suggest that it is/was real at some point. That’s what we know.
The emotional, knee-jerk dismissal of all of that and declaring it is/was fake, a lie.
And besides, seeing Bliz got caught with their pants down with Reforged, all eyes have been on them ever since. Even if they wanted to, they know full well they wouldn’t be able to get away with any deception with the whole gaming world watching.
It’s not running in circles. It’s staying on the same point over and over.
Sorry, I know you are upset, I was not saying that you were defending them, I’m just saying that both Duskstalker pointing out all the gimmicks in those images and you pointing out that mockups are a legitimate way to propose products are on the same line. The point is that all these Images are backed by nothing or better, they end up doing nothing.
The main problem is always:
“Hey guys we apologize for the awful release, but now we are willing to recreate the full ladder experience starting by this idea… (screenshots)”
“OMG U ALL WE R SO PRO WE SOON GIVE U THE LADDER SOON!!!111 LOOK ELO LOOK CLAN LOOK ELO LOOK SCREENSHOT LOOK SOON!!! (wall of paper blabbering about the concept of elo system,that is also wrong applied by default, followed by some more SOON”.
it really looked like those photoshopped pictures of the gulf of mexico taken from the helicopter where you could see the jagged seems of the clean sea images copypasted on them instead of the huge black oil spot.
You did a mess? We know it already, now apologize, clean everything, come back with a solution. Don’t just try to add more shame to the shame…
This is where you show you are too good hearted…
Probably you are a too good guy to imagine what they would try to do to keep the boat afloat and get away with it…
When you show work concept to clients you got a conscience, they don’t.
I wouldn’t put it past any corporation to overtly pull a fast one. Though, I would be suprised if they tried two in rapid succession knowing they would have no chance of getting away with the second. But, it is possible I’m giving too much credit in that regard!
yea we dont know whats going on behind the scenes. we have the developer updates that work with pictures that are fabricated and dont show factual progress.
your takeaway from that is that they clearly made progress due to that.
i dont agree with that stance as i only call progress what is real progress and not a thrown together preview of “maybe”. in regard to reforged blizzard has been alot of talk and excuses and promises with very little actually happening.
your suggestion of “something was or is real” according to the factual knownledge we have (cooked up “screenshots” instead of real screenshots.) is no argument i can agree with. its pure assumption of you to suggest any action followed the developer updates. nothing was delivered and the team has been disbanded. maybe it was clear the team was gonna be shifted away from wc3 in june and they just wanted to throw up a smoke screen towards the community and kill the project while the community is shut up waiting for features that may never come or need to be implemented by vicarious visions 1-2 years down the road.
those developer updates should have been a thing from march ongoing, yet it was way later in the year when they finally started talking about profiles and ladder, just weeks before the team gets reassigned to diablo4.
i just dont see any reason to put any goodwill towards blizzard after reforged has been a full blown disappointment with none of blizzard actions giving them any kind of reputation for being reliable or trustworthy. barely anything happened after the release - profiles should have been included 1-2 months later. they advertised the account transfer from wc3 bnet to reforged, but the reality is: those accounts are probably long gone and i kept my wc3 account alive for 15 years until blizzard pressed the killswitch.
I completely disagree with that. Evidence is right in front of your nose: the features still aren’t here. Clearly, if Blizzard was willing to do it, it would be done by now (it has been a year). The fact that Blizzard stopped reforged development and deleted the team should speak volumes to you about how “willing” Blizzard was to continue reforged development.
You could argue the developers were willing? Maybe? I don’t know enough about the size or ability of their team to say so. And I doubt you do either. Words are cheap, actions speak volumes. You could also say they plan on it doing it now? Maybe. Why now and not a year ago though? Actions once again speak volumes
Sadly, there are actually people with low enough IQs to still preorder products from Blizzard (I think I saw some people say they were planning on preordering dibbles 4). As if they learned nothing about what happens when you give someone a free loan for no reason (tip: the company doesn’t need your loan. They have the money. They just want profit, and if they can get most of the profit without finishing the game, why finish it? Integrity? Hah, just look at reforged)
people will trust anything you say? No, everything you write is solely to make Actiblizz and yourself look better. I would not be surprised if you’re shilling with the motivation to become the next Actiblizz mouthpiece community manager on these forums.
This post is beyond disgusting with the way you’re twisting words and NO ONE EVER should take anything you say seriously or at least genuinely and in good faith.
Saying something has the POSSIBILITY of happening does not mean they’re claiming it is the norm. Oh and btw, 2 people living on the far east of Russia would be closer to Asia data centres than EU ones in Amsterdam.
I honestly can’t tell if it’s because you don’t want to engage the point honestly or because you literally don’t understand what is being said. Claiming someone is unable or unwilling to do something when there is PROOF of them doing something means the person making that claim MAY be out of touch. It’s not shilling to post this. It’s just basic logic.
And let’s not get started on that thread, where all Leviathan did was use the numbers you originally gave them to equate prices and you spent the rest of the thread saying they were wrong while providing no actual evidence.
It’s amazing people can change the definition of words at will on this forum and when called out on it just accuse people of being Blizzard shills.
Adding a modal word such as “may” and “possibly” gives you the liberty to advocate for abstruse theories which clearly benefit Actiblizz’ public image and are contrary to the truth, e.g. that Europeans playing 1v1 should never play on non-EU servers and that there is no development progress whatsoever on ladder and profiles? Ok bro…
May in that instance was used because the Journalist MAY have been out of touch or they MAY have been pushing a narrative knowing what they were claiming was false. We don’t know, so may is used to not make definitive claims we have no proof of. Welcome to the English language.
You mean outside of what we were shown? Showing that there WAS progress? You can’t claim things you don’t have proof of. I’m sorry that people on this forum don’t understand that.
Leviathan never said this, you’re just making things up. There are cases where 2 people living in Russia could be closer to an Asia data centre, that was Leviathans point, and it’s true, I’m sorry you don’t like reality.
[quote=“arcsaber-21354, post:35, topic:26595”]
Adding a modal word such as “may” and “possibly” gives you the liberty to advocate for abstruse theories which clearly benefit Actiblizz’ public image and are contrary to the truth[/quote]
Tbh, Leviathan just leaves open possibilities to different outcomes, but he clearly stated that he is against the current status of the game. He is just let’s say “less aggressive”. So it’s more about constructive discussions.
EU servers are awful anyway, there is no need to go to US to get a nice 200 ping…
Yes, that’s what Leviathan claims when he says that the journalist is “out of touch” after the journalist exposing that w3champions built a ladder and profiles within mere weeks.
Except the 1v1 of two Dutchmen also gets occasionally hosted on US or Korean servers, even though the EU server is in the Netherlands. That’s the actual problem here.
This is a thread about the result of a journalistic investigation. Journalism is concerned with presenting facts and the truth within the subjectivity of its medium. Let me make one thing very clear for everyone who is still in these forums: “We’re sorry that you didn’t get the experience you wanted” is a direct consequence of people believing in the “may”, “possibly” and “likely” bs of megacorps such as Actiblizz.
“May”, “possibly” and “likely” and such are the “get out of jail free card” for any accountability whatsoever. As long as people accept counterfactual bs because they have blind faith in megacorps and/or “it’s just a possiblity bro”, nothing will ever change. Megacorps and and their shills will keep getting away with everything bad and outright despicable they do because “we didn’t actually say or promise that”.
In this very thread we have a skilled guy who spent considerable time and effort to provide actual proofs of the developer update screenshots being mere design mockups which can be done in 15 minutes, and the developer update text can also be written in 15 minutes because it’s just a bunch of words without a presentation of a coherent, sophisticated system. Yet, there are people in this thread challenging these proofs and trying to “explain them away”. This is was is called “desinformation” and “fake news”, in a systematic fashion because it’s not the first time. I will not accept this. Ils ne passeront pas!
It’s so tiring to have to go back and show you just how wrong you constantly are every time someone like you posts.
That is the original claim. Leviathian responds.
Now, Leviathan makes this claim using the evidence that we have from the previous Blizzard updates showing screenshots of the upcoming ranked system. Now when Leviathan says the author MAY be out touch, it leaves room for other reasons, like pushing a narrative, bias etc.
Now secondly. We have proof of development progress. It’s in the updates. Going from nothing to even conceptual images, is PROGRESS. That’s just how things work.
So when the journalist claims they are unable or unwilling (see above quote) it is fine to claim that they MAY be out of touch because the evidence (Blizzards updates) exist to show the contrary.
This is irrelevant to the point that was being made here or in the other thread. It’s about the possibility, which I showed could happen.
You know Leviathan refunded after 2019 Blizzcon right?
The claim is that they are unable or unwilling. The evidence provided from them shows progress and willing. Because if there was no progress, they wouldn’t have these images. Just the way things work. We can argue about the AMOUNT of progress, but progress exists. That’s all that’s being said.
There is no “proofs” from the Journalist video, no one is trying to “explain them away”. It’s not “fake news” or disinformation", it’s literally someone making a claim, someone rebutting with evidence, and then people trying to rebutt said evidence with their own opinion with no evidence behind it and trying to present that as fact.
its a 14 minute video and the quick translation i made is 8 sentences. you need to watch out you dont put too much weight into a very specific phrasing i chose to convey in very very short what was being said. its not a word for word translation.
also i disagree about the “progress” being proven by mere images - for the same reasons as i disagree with leviathan about that.
certainly not. this just proves someone spent time in photoshop creating exactly that what you see with no further implications. the person(s) who made those “screenshots” of profiles and ladder might not even be part of the blizzard team which worked on reforged but activision PR.
That 2nd link to my explanation on how servers are selected is directly from the lead network engineer for Reforged.
The 3rd link is just to my initial reply in this thread where, based off of the available information, it’s my opinion that the devs were able and willing to put the missing features back in the game at some point in the past.
So that just leaves our debate about wc3champions, which again, no one using a shread of analytical thinking would ever take what’s said on a single subject and extrapolate it across everything they say, simply because you didn’t like what was said.
And true to form of someone struggling to fabricate what ever they can, well done twisting my words in your hyperlinks.