It’s very odd that you never see good players/current players/pros complain ever about unit group limits but here we are in casual central with all the baddies crying about it because they can’t hang LOOOOOOOL ![:rofl:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
Actually Grubby asked if it was possible to up this limit on steam. But i guess you’re going to avoid this fact as you did previously.
Been playing the game for 16 years and never thought to myself “wow I hate ctrl groups I wish i could just move my entire army” because I understood it was a part of the game you had to master instead of dumbing it down for casual children to understand. ![:thinking:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
Yeah and I saw he said
I am cautiously leaning towards 14 or 16 max. Uncapped leads to paging in bottom UI which I’m definitely not a fan of and sc2 has way more units than WC3, doesn’t need it as much
CAUTIOUSLY leaning towards a +2 or +4 max, which is UNDERSTANDABLE if it’s absolutely going to make the game better overall, but you guys are insane if you think it should be any higher.
Yes, that’s why I said “leaning”, he definetly has concerns (such as paging, which would suck), but please don’t say he doesn’t know about the consequences of unit caps, he is well versed in the game and has probably been having our discussion before we even knew about Reforged.
Also, your definition for skill floor seems to be mistaken, skill floor is generally attributed to the least amount of skill you need to be somewhat effective, the lower the skill floor is, the easier it is for a learning player to show competence.
Skill ceiling is the top pratical performance possible with given mechanics, it’s the point where the more mastery over game mechanics stops translating into better results, you’ve reached top performance with the given aspect of the game.
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Oh so the number 12 is not a mandatory part of what the high level meta is then ? Good to know.
Bless Enrique for having the patience to educate you a bit since you seems to not be able to do so all by yourself.
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You do realise that Grubby gave that number because he was concerned about the UI right? It has nothing to do with the points you are trying to make.
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Only thing left for you to learn is: what skill floor, ceiling and gap are, then we can talk about this topic.
No duh he has concerns, just like me and why i’m posting here. He probably hasn’t even had time to consider all of the potential downsides of upping the limit.
My definition of skill floor is exactly perfect. It’s the least amount of skill required to compete with others at your level. Making the game easier (by allowing unlimited groups) makes the skill floor ARTIFICIALLY HIGHER FOR EVERYONE, in that it requires less mechanical skill to be “better”, thus raising the skill floor by default. It’s artificially going to prop players up because they no longer have to learn how to properly macro/micro. To clarify, the default skill level of all players would raise, thus the floor with it.
Nowhere is that ever implied by anyone. Grubby said CAUTIOUSLY looking at it, or barely even considering it because he doesn’t see a reason for doing it because he knows at that high level that it’s an integral part of mastering the game.
He gave that number because both the UI and unknown cons of adding additional units to groups. That’s why he said “CAUTIOUSLY” because he just doesn’t know how it would play out.
I’d be okay with +2 and MAYBE +4(i’d have to play to feel/see it), but changing the CORE MECHANICS of the game is something I don’t want to see, not even to please the noobs.
You litteraly made a post named " 12 unit groups is an integral part of skill in this game"
LOL, no. Go read that definition man, really 
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Aw man.
Hell, would there be a difference between 20 control group and unlimited?
Most armies would be controllable by 2 groups which you do by default anwyay
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I did, because it’s true? Even grubby knows that which is why he said “CAUTIOUSLY” leaning towards a MINIMAL +2 or +4 change. A +2-4 change probably won’t negatively affect the game TOO much, but a freaking UNLIMITED change will DEFINITELY ruin the game.
You don’t seem to understand that changing a core mechanic of the game is going to, by default, raise every player’s skill level, thus raising the skill floor.
Man he LITERALY asked if the contrary was possible to do… Can you understand basic ideas people are emitting or what ?
Man, making the game easier for beginners is lowering the skill floor and NEVER will be raising that skill floor, that’s just pure nonsense. No matter how you put it, this is how it is. Get over it.
Can you stop with your retarded ad hominem attacks and put together an actual cohesive argument for once in your life?
Man, making the game easier is lowering the skill floor. No matter how you put it, this is how it is. Get over it.
Except in this case it wouldn’t lower it because it’d most likely lower the skill ceiling as well because LESS MECHANICS REQUIRED = LESS SKILL REQUIRED. PERIOD LOL.
If you think it’d just affect the skill floor you have no clue how anything works.
You don’t understand what that is. For me to attack you ad hominem, it would require that your point is based on actual english definitions, which it is not.
Whew. Good one, I’ll just leave since you clearly cannot refute my point that less mechanics required = less skill required without attacking me in some shape or form instead of my argument or “English comprehension” which is clearly better than yours.
True. But we are not talking about game mechanics, we are talking about number of clicks.
Raising the limit would give rise to new play-styles and strategies.
Control groups are an integral part of this game’s mechanics.
Well that’s your opinion man, others and I surely have a different one.
There is no “except”. Making the game easier can lower both the skill ceiling and floor. It’ll never raise any of these NO MATTER how you put it in your mind.
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