Zerg and Protoss abilities to match terrans

General Discussion
1

Ok everyone hates nerfs so forget that direction of balance.

On Protoss version of scan it makes an observer for 150 energy. This means you remove the original place build observer.

Then second thing is Chrono boost instantly cut time to 50%. For example say 1 min build 30 secs to 15 secs to 7.5 secs.

Zerg hatchery would have queens abilities
Spawn larva once cast instantly spawn 3 larva. Be same as queen but instead once pool unlocks hatch upgrade or is unlocked once queen is made. Hatchery start building energy.

Second ability is spawning creep tumors must have vision but doesn’t need creep but is 100% - build time if no creep is present at its location.

2

no, just no, these are in no way good ideas.

2 Likes
3

The whole point to match terrans power

Only thing needs change is when nexus and hatches gain power. So in end nothing really change on pro side and boost bottom part.

Then observer seems odd spot like they have no ideal to put it. Since it’s none combat unit only scout and detect stealth that giving ability to made free and spot anywhere on map. Seems fair

Creep tumor is kinda iffy I give that but creep tumor should be more offensive and better way gain intel. It be more close scan ability except it can’t detect stealth but can block but way Terran can scan won’t do much.

4

How about we buf protoss for change some real buf not this crap we nerfed asimilator cause in pvp p have problems with gas so actually it’s not nerf but buf

and give terran and specially zerg protoss treatment

1 Like
5

Dude you are so stupid it’s insane. Gold player giving his retarded ideas. I’m diamond 2, yet i don’t dare to even mention balance propositions because i know i’m too low. If you really want suggest something get at least M2/M1 - only then your suggestions will be plausible and you’ll have enough credibility in the eyes of SC2 community. So stop polluting forum with this nonsense.

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6

Abs this commit is reason no communication works, Then u go you have to be this tall to ride this ride. Problem with this game is mainly execution .

Look this very old discussion on Terran ability mule and scan that if they forget 3 turns they can quickly catch like nothing happen unlike Zerg or Protoss.

All I suggestion same to be addressed to Zerg and Protoss.

Now ur argument might be valid on observer and creep tumor but ideal is copy scan and applie to the race ability.

7

hey stryker, if your gonna make an alt account to reply to your post just to boost it, you might want to actually talk differently in them so people dont know its you.

8

I was responding to abs and I am not abs.

9
  1. Learn proper english - i can hardly understand what you mean.
  2. what ?
  • Mule is terran tool to equalize economy in the first 5 minutes of the game. Mules are only overpowered in the very late game where terran has 10 orbitals and plays mineral heavy composition - which is never the case because you always have to add tanks/ libs/ghosts and other support units costing gas.
  • Orbital supply seems like being unfair but the reality is - it is the least priority of all orbital abilities - you only use them when you’re doing some timing push and you need supply RIGHT now. Otherwise you just have bad macro which results in supply block all the times.
  • Scans ? Sure, if you give cheaper raven, you can remove it’s ability to detect cloaked units.

You see yourself. This is the problem with people like you who don’t understand game well enough and then come to this forum acting like they have some game-breaking ideas. If you were at least M3 player you would realize how broken queens are for example.

1 Like
10

I do understand this game problem lies in the fact an be ok player forget to do something like drop 3 mules cycles. That’s ok because he can instantly drop 3 mules. No loss but unlike Zerg it can be game ending mistake.

I think it be more balance if game is also forgiving on Zerg and Protoss. These ideals is nothing new.

I do think raven need be cheaper I go so far say cost no gas but I do think helion should cost some gas. Now if raven cost no gas I think auto turent should cost more energy. Since main reason infested Terran got removed.

11

If terran forgets to drop 3 mules it can still be game-ending mistake because they won’t have enough resources to build units for timing push for example. In the first minutes you should drop a mule whenever you have a chance. Skipping a single mule means 225 minerals less - that’s almost 5 marines - it does matter in case of both aggression and defense.

2 Likes
12

Look it’s very simple Terran has taking advantage of simple mistakes that can easily be fixed, making window of the attack very small or none existent.

It’s only fair and balanced if other two races have that type freedom. Where the heat of battle can cause delays should force one race to cripple because didn’t mastered siera control.

No one can denie the advantage that Terran has.

I was giving solutions to relieve this major advantage instead of asking for nerfs because since Terran playing this game 14 years would find it very frustrating and probably quit vs Zerg wow I can fix my mistake instead of gg.

13

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Zerg forgets to inject - they can stack injects with SHIFT click. Forgets to spread creep, drop creep with overlord, Protoss forgets to build probes - they can chronoboost them. Protoss is out of position - recall, shield overcharge etc. All races have mechanics that can forgive lots of mistakes if that’s what you mean.

3 Likes
14

This is true! The idea that Stryker is attempting to rectify, however, isn’t really encompassed by this -

Specifically, the point here is that if you forget to drop a MULE, as long as you still had money to keep producing until you remember to drop the MULE, you are not meaningfully punished for having dropped your MULE late.

This is because, unlike Zerg larva, and unlike Protoss Chrono Boost, dropping multiple MULEs at once stacks at full efficiency. To a reasonable approximation, you get 225 minerals per MULE dropped over a minute regardless of when, where, or how many you drop at once. (Yes, if you drop 10 at once you don’t, if you drop them on patches with <225 minerals you don’t – approximately.)

When you triple-inject a Hatchery, you do not gain 9 larva after 48 seconds - You gain 3 larva at 45, 90, and 135 seconds. This is the same rate as you would receive that larva if you had done the macro perfectly, except now your larva gain is permanently delayed by however long it took you to notice you missed the inject - at least, if you were already spending the larva (if you weren’t, then the natural larva banking mechanic larva is also being lost).

When you snap double-Chrono a structure, you actually just waste a Chrono Boost, so you have to have the presence of mind to stack the Chronos as they expire to get the actual amount of production time decrease - and again, not dissimilar to injects, if you’re using Chrono to push units out, missed Chronos are permanently lost seconds on your production cycle.

This is not in opposition to the point abs is making, that Inject and Chrono let you make up for other mistakes you’ve made, they’re not talking on the same axis at all -

In a sliding scale of “How bad is it if I use X 15 seconds late”; Injects > Chrono > MULE. That means “Terran is more forgiving of mistakes” (in this one very particular exact scenario)

In regards to using abilities to correct mistakes; though, I agree wholeheartedly; and with this:

This isn’t really…true? This is actually most true of Protoss due to the way that Warp In and Strategic Recall work.

If you find an undefended base, Zerg and Terran both can do jack about it, because both must walk units from where they are or get produced to that location. Zerg can circumvent this using Nydus worms, but it only unloads 2 units per editor-second, or ~3 units per second; and the worm itself can be killed and the units won’t all be there at the same time etc.

This is a very different idea than the one Stryker talks about in the opening post and their gameplay ramifications could not be more disparate.

1 Like
15

It’s pointless to even reply to him. Guy is gold and he wants to be perceived as knowledgable person. Imagine forgetting droping 3 mules - that will cost 675 minerals which is huge. Yes mules efficiency is accumulated but at this point you have seriously screwed macro and entire build order. 675 minerals - roughly 13 marines less, or 13 scvs less or 4 siege tanks less - this is a disaster.

2 Likes
16

Gold v gold cat fight incoming. Girls, you are both pretty.

1 Like
17

Honestly your M2/M1 4.6 -4.9 MMR is slightly better buddy :slight_smile:

Maybe you will tell us you understand game better than anyone else on this forum, cause you are progamer. LMAO.

18

Being high rank and having a good point have low correlation.

The entire point of the argument Stryker had is that you don’t lose 675 minerals.

Unlike Inject, where using it late natively punishes you because you are now permanently behind,

Where using Chrono Boost on a research late only affects that/the next research, but using it on unit building puts you behind until the structure gets to be idle (ie. you are maxed or no longer desire to produce that building’s units),

When Terran MULEs late, the penalty is only actualized if you already had done perfect macro, and unlike the others, the penalty does not exist if you have already banked money, whereas the other two races are continually forced to use their macro mechanics properly.

For a timing attack, sure, a late MULE is a death sentence. But that’s not the only point and dismissing the complaint like this is the only part of reality that matters is simply poor form if not disgenuous.

2 Likes
19

I’d argue that Protoss rarely need to “use their macro mechanic” as far as production goes; usually it’s used primarily on research or upgrades, and maybe the early probes. If they’re in a pinch they’ll use them to chrono out an immortal or colossus.

Beyond that first timing they rarely use them I’ve noticed.

1 Like
20

Grand Master is a sigma 3 outcome. If you don’t think that’s impressive, then you’re mathematically illiterate. Compared to ACT scores, it would be equivalent to a 36. 34 is required to apply to harvard. It means you scored higher on the test than 99.8% of people. Sigma 3 outcomes in sc2 performance are incredibly rare.

Add in the fact that I deliberately handicap myself, with mass swarm hosts vs terran bio, for example, and a grandmaster result becomes astronomically less likely. 99% of grandmasters get into GM by abusing only the strongest builds which they copied directly from Maru. Getting gm was too easy for me, so I require myself to win only by sniping command centers with mass hydra, or something comparably ridiculous. You can find out what other GMs think about this strategy. Watch any Berrycrunch vod and you’ll immediately be lectured on how bad of an idea it is to snipe command centers. Go onto Uthermals YouTube and you’ll find a vote which ranks swarmhosts as the worst unit in the game. Etc etc. These are the strats being used to get GM.

You’re not impressed because you know nothing about the game.

To emphasize how insane these builds are, I posted a clip where I beat a 5200 eu terran using mass hydra with the title “hydras are pretty busted”. I was bombarded by hoards of players saying the hydralisk is trash. Thus my point was proven. Everyone knows how terrible these units are. Bnet forum trolls will lie to your face and say it’s not impressive to get GM using these strategies. That’s how you know these boards are filled with absolute lunatics.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/k0IoOaLcsck

This is an EU grandmaster crying that the hydralisk is uncounterable. Lmfao.

1 Like