Zerg and Protoss abilities to match terrans

General Discussion
21

It’s not hard understand yet u blame not knowing game

Terran miss whole mule cycle now but ok cast two mules.

Protoss miss the whole crono boost that time is forever lost upgrade takes longer push is now produce window for enemy for to take advantage.

See as long energy doesn’t stops at 200 delay is only time he forgot.

But see when Terran misses he out 225 for short time because multiple mules sky rocket 225 to 675. Terran no longer behind.

Unlike crono 20 secs is gone forever can’t really be gained back. Unless you allow Protoss multi stack crono on one building.

Or Zerg can get multi cast larva not queuing as system works which to only balance this is putting skill on hatch and not queen. Unless u can make queen cost 300 and have same build rate as hatchery .

1 Like
22

Gold compared to diamond 2 like me is bad, just like diamond 2 is bad compared to gm, and gm 4.9k is bad compared to pro player. Get it ?

Calling me “gold player” by low grandmaster player is exactly the same as you being called “diamond player” by pro player.

You want to impress me ?
Get 6k MMR on ANY server - i don’t care EU/NA rather than making your retarded “challenges”. You’re stuck forever at 4.9k and you cannot get out of it no matter what. That’s why you’re acting like a clown on the ladder because you’re bored with this stalemate. As a matter of paradox beating higher ranked players with stupid strat is actually easier that you might think because they are not used to this type of play. Many pro players can’t even react properly to cannon rushes, because they haven’t been cannon rushed in ages.

23

Ok so his whole point is that forgetting to drop mules is forgivable because Mules outcome is accumulated ? If that’s the case then maybe his complain is valid in his gold level. Because in my league i’ve never seen anyone forgetting to drop mule in the first 5 minutes of the game. You drop every chance you get. You stop dropping past 5 min where first engagements occur/clearing creep.

As for scans this argument is completely dumb because you know how terran detection works. Raven is a super niche unit costing ton of gas and a paper plane, so terran relies on scans for detection purpose.

I have assumption that he lost to some scrub gold terran who forgot mules and that enraged him, that’s why he made this stupid thread.

3 Likes
24

Been there, done that. High level sc2 is extremely boring because it’s min-maxxed builds on repeat like a robot. It’s like memorizing 3 songs on the piano and playing them over and over again. Nobody can listen to the s a m e song on repeat but high level sc2 players do the same build over and over. I legitimately think it takes a cluster B personality disorder to be good at sc2, such as obsessive compulsive disorder. If you interact with these people, like I have, you’d find they are extremely insecure, and insecurity is the basis of cluster B personality disorders. They have a lot of the markers. They don’t go outdoors. They play video games all day. They are emotionally very fragile. They are obsessed with doing things perfectly. That’s cluster B dependent disorders like OCD.

Sc2 really doesn’t have much strategy to it. It’s mostly a multitasking game, and multitasking is mostly reaction speed, and reaction speed is mostly practice. High level sc2 is about grinding tens of thousands of hours of practice to get your reaction speed as high as possible, and there really isn’t anything else to it. It’s literally true or false, do I have a life or do I have a cluster B dependent disorder that causes me to spend way too much time obsessing over a video game.

Sadly, I was in that category at one point. I made it to 6300 mmr. It was easier than I ever could’ve imagined. It was literally just putting in the hours to memorize a minmax build. That’s all it took. I went hard at it for like a month. It takes some serious zeal to push yourself hard enough. It was hard because it was repetitive and boring, not because the game was hard. I spent years bouncing around 5.5-5.7. It took one month to reach pro level mmr and it didn’t feel like I was anywhere near my maximum. But who on Earth has the zeal to sit in their basement and play the same songs on repeat like a robot. Definitely not me.

You can find me in uthermals youtube vods. Not hard to spot 5500 mmr barcode zergs, lmao. Uthermal got really salty losing to me because he’s looking for good content and I just allin him and he loses in 3 minutes. Lmfao, good times.

Real sc2 success is meaured in WPM, and that’s wins per minute. Most people drag out games to max their winrate. I aim for not the highest winrate, but the most number of wins with the least time investment. This shows my business background. Making money is 95% speed. You cannot spend a years time producing a perfect car, you have to crank out 3-5 OK cars. It matters less that you can sell a car for peak value and more that you can sell a lot of them NEAR peak value. I look at these APM spammers in sc2 and I see a complete and utter dearth of business sense. They spend 12 hours a day spamming apm for $5/hour ad revenue, in the hopes they get to win a tournament and make real money. Yeah buddy. Better hope to sell electricity to the power company by standing outside and hoping you get struck by lightning. At least you can stream while you do it.

It makes absolutely no sense unless you add in the assumption that they have serious personal issues which prevent them from taking better routes, like plumbing or hvac. You could legit make as much money as serral as a plumber for the same time investment if you could convince yourself to get out of the basement. That’s a long term financial plan because you can make a career out of it. What do you do when you retire sc2 and have to explain to future employers what you did with years of your life? Sc2 is not a career path, it’s career suicide. Bonuses include increased vitamin d, meeting hot babes who like plumbers, buying motorboats and atvs and having your own home. I mean, what’s not to love?

I’ve done framing, plumbing, concrete, electrical, roofing, flooring, landscaping, welding and hvac; web programming, game programming, database programming, scientific computing, artificial intelligence; civil engineering, mechanical engineering, structural engineering, electrical engineering. The world is a big and wonderful place. There is no need to spam apm, mindlessly, in an ezpz video game. Make some money, take a hot babe to france, have an authentic bottle of pinot noir with some beef burgandy. Head on over to Italy for some authentic osso bucco and a bellini. Rinse and repeat. Stack the W’s so tall the stack falls over and start stacking them all over again.

Obligatory metal:

:musical_note: Drifting through this boundlessness
This madness of our own making

Sound our dire reveille
Rouse all from our apathy
Lest we
Cease to be

Stir us from our
Wanton slumber
Mitigate our ruin
Call us all to arms and order :musical_note:

25

OK

Now TLDR version please. Thank you.

26

Young adults are sucked into the trap of video games because it appeals to their desires for money and status, and it affirms their emotional needs like fear of the outside. They drift boundlessly with apathy for their future. The reality is that marketing drastically misrepresents the reality of pro gaming, and they are headed for ruin if they continue on such a path. They must be awoken, with a battle cry that calls them to arms, so that they can fight the forces that seek their ruin.

Interestingly, the lyrics use “mitigate” when describing the ruin, meaning they are already so far along the path of destruction that the best they can hope is to mitigate it. That’s the natural consequence of drifting boundlessly. Boundlessly means without boundaries. They don’t have lines that, if crossed, they say enough is enough. They’ve already sailed past the safe zones and into dangerous waters; turning back now doesn’t save them from ruin, it simply mitigates it. The ship is sinking, but maybe we can get a bit closer to land before we are no more.

It’s an absolutely brilliant song. TOOL is filled with literal geniuses. They are modern day Artistotles and Socrates’. The lyrics are simple and yet profoundly deep. The melody is a masterpiece similar to what you’d find in a symphony yet it’s here in a metal song. Truly a band for the modern age.

27

Ok what does it all have to do with your alleged 6k MMR ? You can’t prove it. You were nowhere near 6k MMR in your whole career. Also do not forget that MMR thresholds have changed through years. Suppose you were close to 6k 7 years ago. Nowadays it would be 5.3 or something.

Doesn’t it apply to most of us, especially you - because you seem to be addicted to SC2 and you put all your hope in that one video game, otherwise you wouldn’t be streaming. You believe that one day you will become SC2 personality like Artosis or INcontrol but this will never happen.

28

What i like about him is that on stream he seems like a normal functioning person but as soon he gets behind keyboard and there is no camera basement dweller appears

“cmon guys i played against this guy and i needed 25 minutes to beat him and he’s clearly far below my league oh look later i got matched against him again i crushed him ofc but i needed 24 minutes not fair i should be able to beat him in 8 min max”

29

You come from the class of people who think SC2 is hard. What can I say. It’s all a matter of perspective. Getting GM in SC2 is like drinking water as far as I am concerned.

Yes the guy who won’t spend more than 5 minutes on a single game is the one who is addicted, lmao. You couldn’t pay me a million dollars to go pro. It would be a waste of my time. I can’t wait to see you thread the needle between “he won’t go pro” and “he’s addicted”. Pick a lane, sweetheart.

That’s called psychological projection, sweetie. That’s what you want, so you assume it’s what I want. I streamed because I had half a dozen youtubers begging me to do it. One of them had been asking me to do it for almost a decade. He said I’d be a good influence on the kids. I don’t enjoy it. Nobody does. Go watch Lowko, he’s dying on the inside. Berry is flying off the handle every other game. It’s not an enjoyable conquest; it’s not something to “want”. It’s bad. It sucks. The sheer number of weirdos I had DMing me inappropriate messages was off the charts. I get a lot of attention IRL but I was not expecting the hurricane that hit me via streaming. It actually changed my perspective on social media, permanently. I used to think that female influencers were just drama queens about the unsolicited attention. I totally get it now. The internet is packed to the brim with absolute psychos. Frankly I think the internet needs photo ID. You might learn some manners if you had your face attached to your posts, lmao.

30

Respectfully disagree.

You need to not mess up boost probes in order to not fall behind Zerg, and you need to boost units like colossus, immortals, carriers, etc. and in general you need very, very careful boost management for proper build orders.
Screwing up with boosts is the same as screwing up with mules.

Though in general Protoss is much less mechanically demanding than Terran.

31

Imagine a guy who is 4.9 k with his main account. Yet he boasts he is a progamer for whom “getting GM/becoming pro gamer is so easy it’s boring”. He boasts he is very attractive and has lots of girls while clearly he is moderately attractive at best. He trolls people on the ladder with proxy swarm hosts while streaming it with a suit and a tie. What would you say about this person ?

A. He has unique personality
B. He is desperately looking for attention
C. He wants to be a clown/provide entertainment for his viewers
D. He is autistic or has other mental issues.
E. All of the above.

32

Mean verbal IQ for those on the spectrum is 66. If you know anything about IQ and how it’s measured / what it means, you’d know it would create severe impediments in their ability to read, write and communicate. You are talking to a guy who had higher standardized test scores than the average high schooler at the age of 10. I was literally attending college in the fourth grade. We’re talking about the polar opposite end of the IQ spectrum, and you can’t tell the difference. Listen, your posts are radically detached from reality. We’re talking looney-bin takes - aliens and ufos and flat-earth type logic. You’re saying water isn’t wet. Nobody believes this stuff except you. I recommend talking to a therapist and working on your issues, because it’s clear you have some big ones. I am thinking they are daddy issues because you clearly have an aversion for bravado and authority. Tell the therapist that you tend to obsess about masculine role models online. That will put them on the right path. Remember, they are here to help.

33

But i am humble honest guy. The problem is YOU - you try to create your own reality which exists only in your head.
Do i stream SC2 with a suit and a tie ?
Do i brag how i’m a progamer while not being remotely close to it in terms of MMR ?
Do i boast how super attractive/successful/superior i am to others in this forum ?
Do i boast how many accomplishments i had in my life ?

If you’ve answered negatively to all four, clearly the problem is not me.
About IQ Tests. At some point i was taking lots of them and my result was anywhere between 120-160. Given the fact that average IQ is considered to be 100, i’m rather happy with my intellectual level. Also bear in mind i took these tests in english which further raises my IQ because some questions required knowledge in english phrases, words, slogans etc. perhaps something you wouldn’t be able to do if you took non-english test.

34

There is nothing wrong with wearing a suit while streaming. There is nothing (necesarilly) wrong with bragging. There is nothing wrong with having confidence in your own self image, or to be proud of your accomplishments. Your emotions here are A) extreme and B) totally detached from the reality of the situation. There is no problem here except the one in your head. Please seek help. Obsessing over me & harassing me is not a constructive thing for you to be doing with your time. Clean your room. Do the dishes. Mop the kitchen floor. There are things within your control that you can fix and which will have an immediate benefit to your life, if you stop wasting time focusing on me. Bye.

35

were you able to write that off on your taxes as a business expense?

1 Like
36

I should write off all of streaming as a charitable donation. It costs so much flipping money to stream, it’s unbelievable. The IRS has never given me trouble. I keep detailed lists of literally everything before I even do it. It’s not unusual for me to make a spread sheet and do a cost analysis years in advance. You have to do that because you watch for supplies, pick them up when they are cheap, and store them away. You fire off a project when all the supplies are accrued.

I have custom software that pulls receipts off my phone, scans them with OCR, and makes them searchable by text, location, date. From there it has a list of expenditures from projects sorted by date and by matching text, and I drag and drop receipts to link them. It can output PDFs with bullet point expenditures and matching receipts.

I also have dozens of calculator spreadsheets that are meant to compute the answer to common questions just by changing the inputs in certain boxes. You figure it out once, make a spreadsheet for it, and you never have to think about it again. More complicated calculators require full blown programming; spreadsheets don’t cut it.

For example here is a break down of my stream:

Date Viewers Days Since Revenue Duration Duration (Hours) Hourly Earnings Weekend Viewer-Hours
8/29/2023 142 32 19 5:47:00 5.78 $3.29 0 821.2333333
9/1/2023 74 35 15 4:40:00 4.67 $3.21 0 345.3333333
9/4/2023 41 38 12 5:30:00 5.50 $2.18 0 225.5
9/7/2023 51 41 10.26 5:03:00 5.05 $2.03 0 257.55
9/10/2023 63 44 24 6:33:00 6.55 $3.66 1 412.65
9/13/2023 56 47 11 6:26:00 6.43 $1.71 0 360.2666667
9/16/2023 42 50 6.41 4:46:00 4.77 $1.34 1 200.2
9/19/2023 57.7 53 15.13 5:47:00 5.78 $2.62 0 333.6983333
9/22/2023 40 56 10 5:14:00 5.23 $1.91 0 209.3333333
9/24/2023 67 58 18.38 6:53:00 6.88 $2.67 1 461.1833333
9/28/2023 35 62 5.89 5:10:00 5.17 $1.14 0 180.8333333
9/29/2023 102 63 21 5:17:00 5.28 $3.97 1 538.9
10/2/2023 129 66 18 7:06:00 7.10 $2.54 0 915.9
10/7/2023 106 71 23.75 4:50:00 4.83 $4.91 1 512.3333333
10/12/2023 66.1 76 17 6:47:00 6.78 $2.51 0 448.3783333
10/15/2023 84 79 18.03 5:47:00 5.78 $3.12 1 485.8
10/16/2023 55 80 16.23 4:45:00 4.75 $3.42 0 261.25
10/28/2023 51 92 18.16 7:53:00 7.88 $2.30 1 402.05
10/30/2023 49 94 23.35 7:05:00 7.08 $3.30 0 347.0833333
11/3/2023 53 98 11 7:46:00 7.77 $1.42 1 411.6333333
11/6/2023 87 101 18.23 6:32:00 6.53 $2.79 0 568.4
11/10/2023 82 105 16.12 7:48:00 7.80 $2.07 0 639.6
11/14/2023 62 109 14.37 5:52:00 5.87 $2.45 0 363.7333333
11/19/2023 75 114 17.15 5:26:00 5.43 $3.16 1 407.5

As you can see, the pay for streaming is absolutely awful. I knew before I started that there was no meaningful financial gain. The trend increases over time, but you’re looking at full-time streaming for 1.5 years before you start making $20/hour. People ask me all the time WhY DonT YoU StReAm MoRe. It’s because it’s a colossal waste of time for what amounts to an enormous hassle. You are basically losing money only to be stream sniped. Please note that the above performance trend is exceptional – 99% of streamers won’t see even this much success.

Revenue correlates with the logarithm of viewer-hours at 0.74. Obviously there’s an exponential relationship. Average # of viewers for SC2, this time of year, is about 50, and the standard deviation is ~25. To get $10/hour, you need 400 viewers, and that’s a sigma 14 outcome, aka 8x the average. There’s no money to be made by streaming. That’s the conclusion that I’ve come to. I already knew that, long before I gave it a chance, I am just making the point to people who think it’s a good idea to try to be streamer. It’s not. Go flip burgers and you will make more money with less hassle.

I will probably keep streaming once I find a break in work, but that’s only because it has value other than revenue. I have an indie video game that I’ll be using the stream to promote. Frankly it’s the only reason I streamed at all. Youtubers were telling me to stream but it makes no sense at all, financially, unless you are promoting some business that actually makes money. The real value of streaming is the ability to do marketing. That game is a side project for me, not a main focus, so that makes streaming a side focus. At work, a ding dong employee cost me 150 hours of labor. He couldn’t find a box with a label, and it cost me 150 hours of my life. That’s roughly 10% of your yearly productivity, poof, gone, because some clown can’t find a box in a storage shed.

Socialists will cry that they need to make $50000/hour and that the buisiness is a parasite that steals a portion of the value of labor from the worker, but they clearly have no clue what they are talking about. You basically front the whole operation, buy all the tools, real estate, etc, hundreds of thousands if not millions in investment startup, you’ve got banks breathing down your neck with massive interest rates, 50% of your income goes to the workers and the other 40% to materials and fees, leaving you with a whopping 10% of the revenue and 100% of the risk.

37

Yes that’s the benefit. Go flip burgers until you’re so good at it that other burger flippers would pay to see you do it. Now your name is Gordon Ramsay making 1000x what you made originally. Or you can be a sigma 420 person and take it even further selling cook books and other equipment. Now your name is Jamie Oliver, worth $400 million. Now you don’t care about money anymore so you go back to your roots and just casually do it on YouTube.

38

Yeah, the “waiting for lightning to strike so you can sell it to the power company” strategy. It’s never going to happen for 99.99999% of people. That’s just reality. It’s a terrible financial plan to pray to the heavens above that RNGeezus favors you. However, if you are marketing a product and you get 1,000 views every time you stream, that’s probably worth it, because you are building an actual business. That’s only true if the people who watch the stream are likely buyers of whatever product you are selling. I’ve programmed game engines my entire adult life. I spent 10 years as a graphics and AI programmer. It would be downright silly of me not to make a game and market it via streaming, especially when youtubers are making videos about me. That’s really the only reason I still play SC2. It’s a dead game, dude, too much APM spam killed it deader than a doorknob. You basically have to be GM level if you want people to watch your stream (or have boobies, that works too). I am keeping my skill level barely above the gm threshold because it might be useful when marketing a game in the future.

This time last year the game had 4.8 million games/season. Now it’s 3.9. Ouch. We’re talking a 20% loss a year. No wonder SC2 content creators are shifting focus to games like Stormgate. Stormgate’s engine, near as I can tell, doesn’t have any technical improvements over your run of the mill game engine. I can do way better than that. I have experience programming CAD tools, and that’s crazy useful because it opens a whole new class of algorithms that can be incorporated into a game engine.

Game engines are very limited in their technical features, and that limits what you can do inside the game / what mechanics can be added. If you want deformable terrain, you need CAD algorithms, and those are crazy complex compared to typical video game algorithms. There are new cryptographical algorithms that make it literally impossible to maphack, but they are also very complicated. The basis for most game engines is just a simple 2D circle based physics engine. That’s the fundamental platform of most game engines. It’s like angry birds more or less. It’s legit 150-300 lines of code. You could write it in an afternoon. Complex algorithms don’t make it into games because of the skill of the programmer and the time constraints of the project. Take away those restrictions and the possibilities are endless.

Minecraft is a good example of an extremely simple game engine. Everything is a cube. It’s such a simple game concept that 5 year olds can play it.

39

Correct me if I’m wrong but the last time I messed about in this game you were the guy who wanted fighting queens and thought they were no good? Again I don’t think the game is so unbalanced or needing any of that. I don’t think the games ever been in a more balanced state from a low level perspective and I don’t really care about the balance for high end outside watching YouTube videos the few weeks I always come back to the game for entertainment. So while unlike abs or the others who wanted to toot their own horns I don’t think you require hours of practice so your mechanical skill to make what you want happen on the screen perfectly is required to understand balance as that simply makes no sense and in general I see it as a juvenile way of thinking. That being said your idea is terrible and not necessary at all lol. In my personal experience Terran macro is more annoying to commit to muscle memory as it has many different mechanics where as I find zerg for example so much more streamlined my apm nearly doubles in try hard games with zerg as its so easy to spam the cycle quickly already. So while I like the idea lowering skill cap and the pace of the game I don’t think removing the only real macro element in inject makes much sense. While most people don’t like the sweat pace i think if you have nothing to do its boring so its a balancing act for fun. All that being said watching pro games if that’s where you care about balance the late game mass MULE 20 command center stuff does look pretty OP when I’m watching videos on YouTube though I’m not sure how you stop that without impacting early game balance.

40

I did write about queens I still feel that making macro units hurts Zerg in multiple ways. But this topic is balancing out the mistakes in game where they can gg to one race and it’s ok to other.

Mule money of production capability and larva is production of capability.

Terran forgets drop mule he can drop extra to catch up were original mistake no longer exist.

But Zerg or Protoss forgets drop larva or crono time is lost and there is no mechanic to fix the mistake.

Everything u do Terran can do so mistake can be present. Macro mechanic be easier if it was on the hatch and u won’t lose it but it be more forgiving if you miss it because heat of battle.