Zeratul mass hysteria?

Co-op Missions Discussion
1

I dont think I have seen such mass hysteria about balancing co-op ever. “Zeratul dead, I want refund, cannons dead, ambushers dead…”

Lets operate with facts.

1/ His hero unit was buffed. Not significantly, but having multiple blinks and incrased cleave damage in early and mid game certainly helps.

2/ His legions are now more expensive, but the Telbrus legion recieved massive buff -
" * Telbrus energy regeneration increased from 0.563 to 3.

  • Telbrus’ Psionic Storm radius increased from 2 to 2.3.
  • Telbrus’ Psionic Storm now recharges the shields of friendly units in addition to its current functionality.
  • Telbrus’ Psionic Storm will now only autocast if it finds 3 valid enemies, up from 1.
  • Telbrus Legion number of Zealots summoned increased from 6/8/10/10 to 10/13/16/16."

This is massive improvement and actually makes this option strong and pleasant to use agains guarded expos. Not ontly the numbers of zealots are more than 50% higher, but the abilities are much more significant now.

Serdath legion was buffed also, especially increased range of mind controll is nice, as you can clearly see enemy heavy hitter being eliminated, before they do significant damage.

With legion incresaed duration trait and new mastery, they have almost no cooldown at all.

2/ Tesseract Monolith initial charges was reduced to 1, but the support calldown reduction mastery now decrases its cooldown to 100 seconds. That means you can have actually have more monolits in longer games.

3/ Mass ambushers build is stil viable. They du slightly lower damage, but they tend to overkill less and still kill very fast if you rapidly blink 3 times. And no, you really dont need more to completly annihilate enemy atack wave, even in lategame. With void blink, they still kick a*s, you just have to, you know, micro.

4/ Cannons were nerfed. Everybody knows they were broken. They required exactly zero skill to use, just hold rapidfire button. This is not problem at all. The problem is, they are basicaly free units, ignoring most of the mutators (black death, fear, moment of silence… you name it). Do not pretend this build is dead. No, this build is stil viable. You just have to use them wisely, know the timings and use Zeratul and your shiledguards to suplement them.

Zeratul is now much more interesting commander, who actually reguires more startegic approach and more skill. So from me - Thank you for those changes. I have bought Zeratul and I appreciate those changes a lot.

32 Likes
2

You are so wrong.

Telbrus is bad and will be bad against everything but lings.

Ambushers are nerfed. Blink changes have little impact. Do you know how much they cost, how fragile they are and how underperforming and slower they are now?

Don’t pretend this patch was ok. Zeratul needed small 20% nerf to his cannon projection cooldown. Simple as this.

No need to nerf the cannon cost to the cost of Nexus + double projection cooldown + nerf his top bar abilities + nerf his units. A bit…excessive.

Yeah you now have two strategies instead of four, mass templars for no air and mass immortal for the rest. Ambushers and cannons are not worth it.

15 Likes
3

you are just a dirty Zeratul hater. go back to your mama’s basement

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4

Have you actually tried those changes In games? I did. Multiple times. Some of his top bar abilities were significantly buffed (directly or via masteries), so “nerfed his top bar abilities” claim is actually lie.

5 Likes
5

Yes playing all day long and I stand by my comments. Not sure if this is your first time with Zeratul.

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6

This is literally the best day of coop ever. I dont think I’ve ever been more happy about a balance change in my life.

Zeratul was so OP that my coop partner and I had unofficially banned him as an option for our weekly mutation runs- he just made the game such a complete joke. Now I can finally start playing him again- it’s like they just released another commander!!

Sorry if you were a fan of braindead gameplay… but not that sorry.

13 Likes
7

Im 710 ascension on EU, played like 200 ascension levels with him and soloed multiple mutations with him, so nope, I have actullay quite enough experience with this commander.

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8

I agree with you CIZO, it’s great to see the last set of 3 commanders actually have to think and have some weaknesses! Maybe the other commanders get to play the game again!

  • Zeratul can’t expand at 0:30 and then build a ton of cannons and win any map instantly. As a trade-off, all of his calldowns are buffed, heroes are buffed, and Stalkers are tweaked/fixed for better constant fighting.
  • Tychus can’t push every objective and straight up ignore a healer outlaw without any micro by building 3 medivacs and diving straight into a new attack wave. In return, his healers are buffed, his tank outlaws are buffed, etc.
  • Mengsk can’t expand at 0:00 with 0 risk to himself and then have 100% uptime for both of his calldowns before the game starts. All this “oh Mengsk units suck I need to be able to call down 60 Ultralisks every 4 minutes in order to contribute” is great!

Honestly I hope the players that hate these changes leave Co-op or stick together in their hugbox speedrunner discord or whatever it is.

5 Likes
9

ok let’s do that.

no it was nerfed. read the patch notes. only thing that was changed was purity of will, which is what he gets after he collects all fragments. and it was a pure nerf.

with a cd twice as high + tesseract matrix top bar choice nerfed…so that was nerfed, even if u only used the monoliths without cannons

from 200% to 50%. buy a dictionary and look up the word slightly. slighty does not mean 1/4.

you got what you wanted but now it’s on. expect your stuff to get nerfed too now.

7 Likes
10

Mate, youd didn read the patch notes carefully, try it again. Zeratul hero unit (at lvl 15, yeah) was buffed. If you dont get this from patch notes, read it again, please.

Zeratul’s Purity of Will trait will now grants 10 Shadow Cleave damage, 50 Shields, and 1 additional charge of Blink per Artifact found instead of 25 Shadow Cleave damage, 100 Shields, and 2 additional charges of Blink at three artifacts found.

Just use math, its simple

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11

Zeratul’s Purity of Will trait will now grants 10 Shadow Cleave damage, 50 Shields, and 1 additional charge of Blink per Artifact found instead of 25 Shadow Cleave damage, 100 Shields, and 2 additional charges of Blink at three artifacts found.

Learn how to read, purity kicks in from artifact one and gets stronger the more artifacts you have, by the third artifact it is stronger than it’s former version

The Xel’Naga Ambusher’s Vengeance of the Void is no longer capped on a cooldown.
It goes from 200% to 150%, it just needs more time to charge up

I do agree canons needed some nerfing, and im a bit unsure if this was in fact to much, but hes still viable

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12

I never ever touched Z and Ty since I did their last achievements.

Now they seem more interesting to me and ofc they are still viable. Not so broken, like b4 but still strong.

But let’s face it this is all devs’ fault for releasing broken commanders and then making all ppl get used to it to suddenly fix it.

Hope from now on the new commanders are not so broken, just strong enough to play coop so ppl won’t have to re-learn a commander and whine for nerfs.

Edit: and personally if it were my decission, I would have kept canons’ original price but making them like Dehaka’s worms I mean not projection but a teleport, so you can teleport all you want but if you lose it you lose it.

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13

I wonder i they should go the fenix route, sligthly undepowered, but later recieves a good buff.

As much as it would be lovely to get them perfect every time sometimes you just can’t ace them all, specially when testing such odd mechanics for some of them.

14

I really feel like people should actually play and try out the commanders and new changes before going into mass hysteria. Play like 10-15 games with the changes; try different builds on different maps so that you can get a feel for how impactful the changes really are.

I only play Zeratul when he gets landed on in random (so i’m not the most proficient), and it was still extremely easy to beat brutal. He’s a strong commander. Just give it a chance and adjust your play style to the patch accordingly.

8 Likes
15

If Zeratul got the nerf, I want Abby to also get nerf. And eventually all other commanders except Stukov.

16

Except Stukov LUL.

Stukov really needs a buff ASAP.

17

Aba was already nerfed twice. Quite significantly both times (And it was absolutly needed. Anyone who remebers agressive toxic nest deployment must agree. It was OP beyond imagination). Than came thy symbionte nerf. Maybe he will be nerfed again in the future, who knows.

I dont think there are other broken mechanics like zeratul cannons though. Zeratul is still very strong commander, even after last patch.

Maybe Dehakas magic fart will be changed in the future.

18

Ok then Abathur and Dehake need to be nerfed now, right?

1 Like
19

Love the decisions Monk has made so far, ez-mode Tychus/Zeratul are gone, if they nerf Abathur’s ultimate Evos and Dehaka’s calldowns I’m 100% for it.

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20

Whats with all these talks of nerfs?
You want to ruin peoples fun?
Because you don’t like the way the commanders are? to strong? to easy?
Get some friends, play on a harder setting or just brush it off.

If anything, the other commanders need more buffs to be just as strong!

5 Likes