Zeratul is still massing cannons

[che-2903]

Karax also has barrier from shield batteries.

[WireBender-1359]

@che-2903

And you’re completely ignoring that if projections destroyed or on cooldown, Zeratul has nothing on the field and only has useless cannons at home.

Oh man, if only we had, like, made units or something useful like that. Or heck, if only we actually had remotely decent cannon macro (???) and had enough cannons that you can easily kill waves and still have plentiful cannons left over. Or imagine if we even had the big brain plan of putting our cannons around the escape point for things we have to kill so the shades kill the enemy army and the cannons kill the objective after the shades die.

[WireBender-1359]

@che-2903

Karax also has barrier from shield batteries.

And shieldguards have their reflective field that works on structures and can heal 2 cannons at once.

[che-2903]

@WireBender-1359

Oh man, if only we had, like, made units or something useful like that. Or heck, if only we actually had remotely decent cannon macro (???) and had enough cannons that you can easily kill waves and still have plentiful cannons left over. Or imagine if we even had the big brain plan of putting our cannons around the escape point for things we have to kill so the shades kill the enemy army and the cannons kill the objective after the shades die.

Don’t know what you’re talking about. I have units. Many units.

@WireBender-1359

And shieldguards have their reflective field that works on structures and can heal 2 cannons at once.

Shieldguard are not teleporting across the map with projections, so are only useful for recharging shields for damaged cannons while on cooldown.

[WireBender-1359]

@che-2903

Don’t know what you’re talking about. I have units. Many units.

Then not being able to do the main objective isn’t the fault of cannons, it’s the fault of incompetence from the player.

@che-2903

Shieldguard are not teleporting across the map with projections

And Karax Cannons are not teleporting at all. We are helping Karax seems stronger by ignoring the ability to teleport and he’s still losing, don’t try to make this even worse for your own case.

[che-2903]

@WireBender-1359

Then not being able to do the main objective isn’t the fault of cannons, it’s the fault of incompetence from the player.

Well, yes, of course. Thats why permanent units exist.

@WireBender-1359

And Karax Cannons are not teleporting at all. We are helping Karax seems stronger by ignoring the ability to teleport and he’s still losing, don’t try to make this even worse for your own case.

Why would they? We were just discussing prices on cannons, not trying to decide who’s stronger.

[Kelthar-1277]

@che-2903

Well, yes, of course. Thats why permanent units exist.

It doesn’t matter what youre using if you aren’t competent enough to have it in place when you need it.

[che-2903]

@Kelthar-1277

It doesn’t matter what youre using if you aren’t competent enough to have it in place when you need it.

Well, yes, can’t disagree with that. But what it has to do with us?

[Kelthar-1277]

Uh, its literally the crux of your argument that you can misplace cannons, and that therefore makes them worse than army units?

[che-2903]

Yes, if you on top of prism micro you can have your army anywhere you need, army doesn’t have a cooldown and can fight immediately after deploying, have insanely huge and aoe damage comparing to cannons.
Thats exactly my point.

[Kelthar-1277]

@che-2903

Yes, if you on top of prism micro

Nope, full stop. You don’t get to compare misusing cannons with well-controlled army. If your army is out of position due to mismanagement, own it. Don’t just claim you were actually managing it perfectly the whole time.

[che-2903]

@Kelthar-1277

Nope, full stop. You don’t get to compare misusing cannons with well-controlled army. If your army is out of position due to mismanagement, own it. Don’t just claim you were actually managing it perfectly the whole time.

Perfection does not exist. Everybody makes mistakes.
And yes, I will compare this. Misplacing army - happens (still much easier to misplace cannons than army), but losing army - almost impossible if mistake is not super huge (like running directly into the nuke) while losing projections is not, cause they have low damage and significant delay and even if the cannon itself is not lost it often means destroyed/runaway objective/destroyed natural base.

[Kelthar-1277]

Losing the projections is meaningless. They cost nothing and have timed life anyway. That’s why theyre so much better than an army: theyre entirely expendable. If youre losing all of your projections to the attack wave such that your base or the objective is killed, you weren’t macroing correctly, same as if your army got killed.

[che-2903]

No, even with decent macro, misplacing is still a thing.
And guess what, when you’re playing actual units, you don’t even have to macro, all macro is done before 5 minutes and you’re out on the map smashing everything and everyone. And when playing cannons you still have to spent half of the game on your own damn base.

[ackmondual-1952]

Still, cannons and Shield Batteries does a decent job against swarmy comps. You use a few Orbital Strikes to help out with that.

[OnestormGX-2799]

yeah, zeratul its poop now!! >:((( how are you supossed to play with infinite detector free units every 3 minutes aprox that can also defend your base and instantly teleport to any point of the map meanwhile carrying the early game with a perma invis aoe hiting hero without energy and with free upgrades??? unplayable refund me 7 times the price of zeratul and gift me a premium lifetime membership to blizzard 1st

[OnestormGX-2799]

In fact if you do the math,if you use zeratul to defend the first 12 minutes you only have like what, several dozens of free better than karax photon cannons spawners that also defend your base on the downtime? you can only fight literally every brutation, enemy base and wave solo with 0 losses? lol unplayable (if something was 100000% op and you nerf it a thousand percent it is still 100% op, wow very math much cool)

[DragoIce-2155]

Yes, Energizer’s…

[Lost-12643]

@Rujind-1403

How are they not worth it? How many cannons were even needed per attack wave/objective? Most of the time people were overkilling it by both building too many cannons and projecting too many - after a fight you’d see a screen full of projections still sitting there.

The strategy is still completely viable and working.

Now you just need to be a little smarter about how many cannons you project rather than being able to be completely oblivious to that number.

Yeah, I’d like to see some replays of this working in mutator games where he isn’t being carried hard by a partner for the first objective.