I’m fully aware that this topic appeared here few times but this works as proof that there is demand for it
BRING BACK WoL LADDER ffs
It literally makes my cry that they dropped of WoL ladder completely.
I’ve tried playing custom WoL games for whole day today and 90% of people were complete noobs, like they didn’t had any units at my first attack(not rush). The other 10% of people had no idea what they are playing. I had only 1 satisfying game with diamond protoss player for entire day.
I hate LotV meta with passion ( you have right to your own opinion here ). Also I don’t like HotS but I don’t mind if some other players want it back.
Is there any hope? I don’t play this game for years now and logging in like once in 6 months just to check if something changed in that matter.
Sounds like old wol ladder, I used it for a while to farm fast victories for the achievements, the queue was somewhat fast and the players were so bad the games were under 8 minutes so compared to hots ladder was around 35% less time and way higher winrate=less games to complete the achievement. I stopped using that ladder when the queues started being 3+ minutes and I was playing against players who were doing the same as me, so I played hots since that moment, no point in playing wol, getting long queues only to play against similar skilled opponents in a game that felt underwhelming compared to hots. Yes, I was a scumbag.
LotV > WoL > >>> HotS fight me. Realistically, no, they should keep LotV ladder and WoL and HotS should be played in custom, especially if it hurts the LotV ladder which should be the priority.
But if they do, I hope you enjoy mass roach against immo-sentry into BL- Infestor against vortex every PvZ.
I play WOL in customs from time to time and protoss is pretty overpowered there too. Dont forget that they had mothership with the archon toilet ability back then. But yeah I agree that WOL is more fun than LOTV. WOL had a 6 worker start and things dont really get crazy until the mid game. And in WOL units like the widow mine, swarm host, viper, lurker, liberator, oracle, tempets, etc…didnt even exist…so for all the trolls out there how could you whine if all of those units are suddenly eliminated completely? It would make for a drastically different game and meta as well which SC2 DESPERATELY needs right now.
Welcome to the “Bring back WOL and HOTS ladders back”. It’s never gonna happen. No more balance patches, updates, bugfixes, let alone bringing back some old outdated ladders. I would love to see WOL/HOTS back in action. I hate everything Lotv introduced: 12 workers start, retarded units nobody asked for, BC as harassment units , worker kill-fest. But because i am a fan of SC franchise in general i have no other option than just adapt to current garbage ladder, and so i do.
Problem is: majority of WOL players quit the game long time ago and they even forgot what SC2 is… sadly. LOTV has been mandatory since nov 2017 where the other ladders were dropped entirely from the game. I’m pretty sure if WOL was reintroduced only few people would come back and play it. LOTV is trash for me because of 12 worker start - openings are so coin-flippy - you literally have to guess and assume what your opponent is doing - cheese is very powerful, one scouting mistake - GG. Apart from that retarded micro-intensive units like ravager, cyclone, disruptor, adept etc. This is so retarded, not only 12 worker start demands higher apm because how fast eco is, plus you have to micro all these units - stupidity beyond any measure. I can’t get to masters literally because of too low apm/multitasking.
But isn’t it the whole point of the leagues? You can always stay in diamond/plat and enjoy the game without having to play too fast. If every player would be able to get into masters without getting sweat, what is the point of masters?
I remember when there were all ladders and I would see a master border during the loading screen, while I was diamond. It was scaring a bit, but when I beated them, I looked into the profile and usually it was WOL master and plat in LOTV, who had no chance against LOTV diamond.
So I think it’s fine that LOTV pushed the maximum skill higher, while you don’t have to play in masters or GM to have fun, if you do not want to play with +200 APM.
But if you want to show everybody easily gotten master border, then yeah I understand your frustration.
League has nothing to do with ladder type. I preferred WOL/HOTS over LOTV because the game was slower and offered much more builds: 1 base , 2 base. LOTV is essentially only cheese or long macro game. In WOL it was easier to get masters not because the entire ladder was easier but because of pace of the game. WOL was much more strategical - shall i expand or stay on one base. If i want to expand do i have enough army to protect my expansion ? LOTV is all about spamming bases all over the map. in WOL you could be on 2 bases at the 10 minute mark, in LOTV T/P have 5 bases, Z has 6. What is the point of that ? Are you playing sim city or StarCraft ? There are solid arguments why 6 worker start was superior. I already got used to LOTV but playing this game on 150-170 APM just to do basic stuff is stupid.
But this what I am saying, you can still play at lower pace in lower leagues. Have you ever seen a zerg in plat with 200/200 at 8th minute? Or terran double drop with perfect 16 marines at 4:50? Of course not. As of APM, players like Guru proved that you can be 6500 as zerg with 180-200 APM, should I say something about toss? I watched terrans getting into diamond with 100 APM.
I do understand that WOL was more strategic and it was easier to defend the cheeses, but from what specifically you are saying, it sounds like you really want to get that master border.
Well, in LOTV you have to make a lot of decisions in less than a second. Such as reaction to cannon rush, 2-3 barracks bunker rush etc. in WOL you had more time to scout and therefore you knew whats coming. Therefore you reacted not only out of experience and simple fact that you have no time to think anymore, but you could actually weight your options, which I could “strategic”.
I am speaking more about the time the average player has to remember, how to defend specific all-in or cheese or come up with something. Because it is part of strategy too.
Yes i do want to get master border and i want to deserve it but not by bashing my keyboard with +250 APM. I think 200 is minimum for terran to get M3 if you play bio. I want to earn master by having decent strategic insight rather than finger speed, agility and hand-eye coordination. What’s the purpose of beating a player just because you clicked faster than him. Does it have anything to do with strategy ? Like i said i am losing games literally because of that. If speed is what is going to carry me to Masters i doubt if it’s really worth the effort.
If the entire SC2 population suddenly switched to WoL ladder, then you would still generally be at a disadvantage against faster players despite the game progressing at a slower pace. Don’t assume that players who beat you have less strategic insight just because their apm is higher. Also, unless you’re 70+ years old, clicking speed is determined more by your mind than by your actual finger (look at piano players).
Like Farbros said, the game tends to match you against people with similar speed. Best thing you can do is accept that this is a legitimate factor and try to improve on it. There just aren’t enough players to support old versions of the ladder.
I think that speed is the biggest difference between diamond and masters, because diamond players usually already do the right things. I have no idea, why do you think you need +250 APM. Aren’t there terran players like Ruff, who play something different from mmm, which requires that?
I personally like it, I always return to sc2, when I have some free energy to waste and want something would really tire me out.
, worker kill-fest. But because i am a fan of SC franchise in general i have no other option than just adapt to current garbage ladder, and so i do.