i havent been here for al ong time and i see many people crying about protoss op.
im a master 2 protoss player, i dont think protoss is op.
yes, protoss have some good cheese, but if you scout, its easy to stop.
and in long macro games i think the game is ok, i dont see what is op about protoss.
can u explain with good arguments and avoid the ridiculous crying?
There are around 80-90 protoss more in GM than the expected amount, thatās all.And most people whinning is mostly Batz (and his alt accounts) and the random Cheesetown/Shia posts. If you step outside of these forums you wonāt see the same amount of whinning, at this point is basically all memes and funposting,not serious discussion.
Nothing new my friend, nothing new.
Always a game problem, unit problem, race problem.
But they are never a problem.
PS: Just thought Iād throw my lot to support him in case anyone claim that he can say whatever he wants because he is a P player. I am a Z player and Iām not complaining as well.
Quit trying to downplay the imbalance protoss players, the nerfs are coming.
Never in the history of the game has gm representation been this skewed.
That is exactly what the few handful of regular crybabies are incapable of doing
explain why protoss is op, give arguments, the gm argument is not valid.
it could be for other reasons, not just balance.
Like what other reasons?
Gm league winrate. Show 60% pvzā¦ protoss have twice gms of zergā¦
Wow, really? Tell me moreā¦
LOLā¦LOLā¦LOLā¦LOLā¦LOLā¦I canātā¦just reading this is beyond hilarious. such a fine argument:
Iām From USA, and I donāt think the average living conditions in the USA are better compared to the rest of the world.
Yes, USA has some very rich people, but if you look at their percentage, they are the outliers, and the overall majority of people are much poorer, I donāt see how USA have much better average living conditions than the rest of the world.
Can you explain with good arguments and avoid ridiculous crying?
When the facts/numbers are there to prove exactly that, it doesnāt matter because on these forums, for certain ppl, their OPINION triumphs facts. Sorry, but the earth is not flat just because you think it is.
thats the only argument? thats all you have? what about pro tournaments of the last 2 years? did protoss win every tournament?
saying this season more protoss are in gm is not enough.
maybe the meta is changing and zergs will adapt next season.
what about pro tournaments of the last 2 years? i didnt see protoss winning every tournamente.
in fact i saw a lot of protoss players trying to end the game fast vs zerg because it was the best way to beat them.
what about pro tournaments of the last 2 years? i didnt see protoss winning every tournamente.
Honestly, this is an argument from Protoss players I just canāt agree with. Itās not about tournament victories, but representation and progression. And while Protoss have not won a ton of tournaments, look at their second places. While EU may be dominated by Serral/Reynor (when you have great players, it happens) Protoss is like the race of 2nd place in Korea. Thatās not a bad thing. It means the race is fine from a balance perspective but may have some other issues. I think Protoss specifically is a race with a lower skill ceiling, so even if youāre the best player in the world, Terran rewards Maru more for being a legendary player. But what this lower skill ceiling does is it makes it easier for Protoss to dominate the ranks of GM because even if the races are theoretically balanced, they donāt need to be as good to maximize their utilization of the race.
see? theres always an excuse!
when zerg or terran are winning everything, its because the players are so good, but when protoss start to win, its because the race is op and now having 2nd places shows that protoss is op too, its ridiculous, sorry.
i have seen MANY pvz and most of the time protoss wanted to end the game fast because zerg late game was too powerful because of their economy and some really good units.
im master 2, my mmr right now is around 4700 and to me pvz is really hard, zerg can have great economy really fast and if u dont do enough damage, going into the late game its really difficult, but i also have to be really careful because zerg players like to cheese a lot too.
i dont know, GM is also a very low % of players in the world, only 727 play in that league.
i think pro tournaments a better to judge this.
its also important to see how protoss players win against zerg.
WUT? Protoss has some Second Places?
Heeelp, nerff protoss ASAP.
Having the second place is a sure sign of OPāness.
I flip coin once. And it 100% heads. This unfairā¦ should be 50% heads!!!
brian of bnet strike againā¦
Probability of protoss wins this many. About 30% chance. It does not mean a thing to balanceā¦ sorry small ā¦
Theyāre over-represented by roughly 40% of their population. Maybe itās not particularly impactful at the pro level (itās obviously not), but it certainly shows a very low skill floor at the mid-high masters range (where many forum posters are).
Or maybe Protoss players are just magically gifted players. IDK.
Except that there were obvious balance issues in 2018-2019 and early 2020 that even a moron could see that it had nothing to do with Serral being better at the game. It was just cheap and easy wins against Protoss.
Now that the balance is more fair we saw Serral recently play 4-2 against Stats.
A year prior at Blizzcon we saw Serral 3-0 Stats.
Thats the issue.
It wasnāt fair any longer.
Stats vs Serral the last time was fair. Stats made mistakes and thats why he lost. The balance was finally in a position where you said, damn this is fun to watch, there were chances for both.
And the best player won, which just happened to be Serral.
I felt like there wasnāt anything quite wrong for Zerg in 2018 but i would say 2018 Zerg is stronger back then than now. 2019 though, weāre left with 2 trash races and Zerg being the heroic race throughout the entire year. It started out being fine but the warning signs were there starting from the ladder where Protoss looked like it had 0 answer to mass infestors. Then it started to appear at tournaments in TvZ where Terran also looked like it had no answer to infestor/broodlord. All of this born out of the early 2019 nerfs of feedback and carrier for Protoss and removing AAM damage from 15 to 0. Literally both Terran and Protoss had their late-game removed vs Zerg.
Then the mid May patch came that buffed Zergs ovie scout from 100/100 to 75/75 and nerfed the 2 base chargelot all in so hard to the point nobody used it when Zergs were getting better at dealing with it. Along side the Nydus buffs the map pool being Zerg favored for blizzcon 2019. ZvP became a matchup where the only thing that Protoss can do is all in before 5 mins because every other phase of the game was extremely Zerg favored. ZvT also had that issue whilst not as severe Terran had the urgency to end the game before 9 mins because once the Zerg gets out 20 infestors its game over doesnāt matter if the Zerg is tier 2 in terms of skill. ZvP is even worse such that tier 1 tosses seem to struggle even vs Tier 3 Zergs. Then the tournament results came where we had more ZvZās then non Zerg champs. Couple of 4-0ās in ZvT and ZvP where the opponent not playing Zerg looked so hopeless (dark vs TY, Rogue vs Trap). Literally all of the Zergs at Blizzcon abused the Nydus swarmhost and many felt that a lot of Protosses were robbed of their victories. All in all that blizzcon was extremely forgettable, plagued with imbalance issues where Zerg was clearly extremely overpowered. The only thing i remembered about it was Classic 3-2 Rogue with that DT all in sniping Rogueās lair. Every ZvP game was painful to watch when clearly the Zerg messed up but somehow ended up winning because āhaha i have a unit that can teleport the entire map high reward low risk haha i guess Iām better than youā or even lategame where it looked so hopeless for Terran and Protoss more so the latter but then Zerg lategame was insanely broken against T and P.
Then finally the nerfs came, Zerg got nerfed yes but Protoss as well in the zealot That made Protoss quite weak in midgame ZvP and as long as you figure out the adept build its game over for Protoss. Weāre left with cheap wins for Zergs where Zergs always seem to go 66 drones into roach ravager āall inā where more times than not Zerg is maxxed out and Protoss is on 120 supply. It felt like it had a 100% winrate and it was so hard to stop from the Protoss side. Even when you successfully defend it Zerg can just mass drones since more times than not, you lose the Nexus. Then the battery patch went it and that didn;t quite work as well and ofc oh no some Zergs complained especially the tier 2 Zergs cos since then they canāt quite beat Stats and the record of Solar/Ragnarok/Armani was terrible against him since then. But the stronger Zergs like Rogue and Dark seem to have no issues against Protoss. Then another Zerg nerf came and void rays found use in ZvP and it clearly looked much harder for Zerg to win cos for once Protoss had options in the matchup and thereās a lot you can do. You still need to play Protoss well though to win but the same goes for both sides then we saw Protoss doing a lot better vs Zerg where Trap/Stats more or less donāt lose to tier 2 Zergs and look competitive vs Tier 1 Zergs and here we are.