Nova’s Automated Refineries cost 100 minerals verses 75 minerals for her ordinary Refineries, while Vorazun’s Assimilators and Orbital Assimilators are both 75 minerals. Why is this difference? Also why there is no Automated Extractors for any Zerg commander?
They also work slower than all other gas extraction structures in coop
Terran technology is way more inferior than Protoss technology.
Just because they both provide gas, it doesn’t mean they need to cost the same. Why don’t you wonder about Mengsk Labourer cost being 40? Or Zagara Drones for 37.5 per unit?
Should the Zerg one cost even less since there is a base cost to all Zerg structures for a single drone? For that matter, should the theoretical auto-Zerg-extractor cost 25 or 50 or 75? Totalling 75, 100, or 125 minerals, is that fair if others cost only on average 75min?
Crazy how different things cost differently and not all things need to be re-conceptualized for every single race.
Well, if we talk about injustice we should point out that Zera’s assimilators are free, selfharvest and warped automatically, compared to that Vorazun and Nova are ages back
I think costs are just transferred from campaigns. In WoL automated refineries was also 100 minerals and in LotV automated assimilators 75.
In SC1 they all cost 100.
That honestly would be good for another topic
Symmetrical design can be both good and bad, and it isn’t essential.
I think Nova’s Automated Refineries probably should be at 75, but as a holdover from Wings of Liberty they weren’t, and it probably never felt necessary to change that as she wasn’t weak in the early game. It’s a bit more annoying that they actually mine slower as Ancalagon says, but again, Nova never really struggled so it was probably never looked at by the developers.
As to Automated Extractors, remember that Co-op was more ‘cancelled’ than ‘completed’. Had support continued we might’ve had more commanders, and there being left-over design space from the campaigns would’ve helped support that. Perhaps an Izsha or a Niadra would’ve got them. None of the existing Zerg commanders really needed Automated Extractors, so they didn’t get them.
I honestly think this qualify as a bug the devs were either too lazy to get to fix, or just plainly forgot about, because it never sounded like a priority and there was always something else to do.
Eh, not a big deal to me, Nova was balanced with the current refineries. Whether or not they cost more or produce less (or if the devs even knew) doesn’t really matter, she still functions fine. Giving her access to production 50-100 minerals sooner and more gas over time doesn’t solve any issues for her.
The thing that bugs me about Automated Refineries having worse stats than stock Refineries is that this goes against some things that have been updated in the past.
Remember Swann’s Tech Reactors? Those used to be super expensive (costing campaign price; 75 minerals and 50 gas). That was buffed to cost the same as a Tech Lab, with the explicit reasoning that it should have been nothing but an upgrade. Sure, 25/25 is really nothing in the grand scheme of things, but the fact that it was done should surely mean something.
Nova’s Automatic Refineries are in a similar situation. Not needing to dedicated SCVs to keep one running is a huge upside, but SCVs aside, it’s statistically inferior to the stock Refinery. 25 more minerals, and a small-but-not-insignificant penalty to harvest speed.
Well the 25 extra minerals can still be a pure upgrade compared to a standard refinery + a 50 mineral worker.
The lower harvesting rate is different.
Yeah, it’s an upgrade all around. I mean sure the 25min additional cost sounds like an expense but you’re saving 150min worth of SCVs to not produce and not pull off mineral line. So no matter how you look at it, it’s a net mineral positive gain.
On the other side of mining rate, you really aren’t saving a whole lot.
One of those “Not everything needs to be symmetrical”
It was probably deemed not necessary. Somewhere mentioned (either here on these forums, or some wiki) where they really wanted to limit the # of COs who would have automated gas gathering.
I guess Zerg having 0 of these is due to them being being overall better off vs. T and P. They make Drones quickly. And while Drones are sacrificed for the Extractor, the Extractor does only cost 25.
Having gone through 22 of the 27 missions in HotS, I am made aware that automated refineries was an option in the campaign. Would’ve been nice to have that with a Zerg CO but, oh well.
The funny thing about all these people defending Automated Refineries is that I don’t see anyone saying anything about Swann’s Tech Reactors being brought down in price to the same as a Tech Lab.
There’s a difference between “This proposed change wasn’t really necessary” and “This other unnecessary change was bad and should be reverted”, though. Is anyone defending Automated Refineries to the extent that they’d complain if they were changed?
Big difference to me there is that Swann has/had an extremely tight early game, without the hero crutch to deal with it either. Dropping the cost for the tech-reactors improved his ramp to a notable degree, same with removing the gas for his armories.
Same can be said for Vorazun’s auto-gas getting a bump in extraction rate, she also is slow to ramp, and is especially held back by gas.
Apart from the desire to have conformity for them, there’s really no reason Nova would have needed the change, her early game is rock solid.
Nobody’s defending it, just that nobody thinks it’s that big of a deal. And everyone provided a fair reason as to why it’s not a big deal.
Vorazun may get faster gas… but she pays for it by having the worst detector out of any commander.
Oracles… are unbelievably squishy.