Protoss is so underpowered its insane. I was watching PIG’s b2GM and for protoss at the D3 level (not that high) to beat zergs, you have to DT drop, harass, then create them into archons, harass, then get storm, then hope they don’t make hydra/lurker or your dead anyway. This game is a complete joke.
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Because removing a faction from a 3 faction rts would be kinda dumb
The faction has already been removed unless you are Her0 or Maxpax. Every single other pro gaming protoss has been irrelevant for over 4 years at least. protoss above 6K basically doesn’t exist as a race.
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40% of the top 100 players in the world are protoss. 43% of the top 200 are protoss. This idea that protoss is weak is just totally wrong – it’s a complete myth.
The top 200 can’t even take a single map from the top 10 in tournament settings for the most part. There hasn’t been a protoss that you can bet to take a championship level event for years. Maxpax is one of the only protoss to beat Maru in a 4-3 bo7, when will Harstem skillous gerald astrea trigger etc ever get to that level
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When protoss floods the upper ranks in droves but falls short of the top 5, it’s a skill issue. Balance clearly favors protoss and they still can’t win premier tournaments. It’s a skill issue through-and-through.
The best protoss in recent history was Zest, and he was notorious for floating thousands of minerals during critical moments of the game, thus losing games he should’ve won. It’s not a balance issue that a Protoss forgets to spend his money.
It’s not just zest, either. If you parse replays and calculate the average bank as a percentage of income, Protoss float more money than the other players. I’ve seen Hero do it. I’ve seen Zoun do it. What protoss do you think deserves to win a premier tournament? Show me the player that plays better than Serral. He doesn’t exist because if he did he would easily beat Serral with the balance advantage that Protoss has.
“Protoss is the most difficult race.”
-nobody ever
It should be illegal to be this stupid.
Maxpax is / can be serral level , but is too stuck in ways sometimes and it goes against him and loses to people he really shouldn’t be . Serral is alot more trickier with his builds and mixes it up in tournament settings.
I thought you might say that. Losing an adept is basically unheard of at this level:
Game 2, MaxPax lets a single zergling get a free scout of his entire opening build. These are very basic mistakes, my man, and you’re telling me this guy deserves to beat Serral?
I repeat: Do you believe MaxPax is truly the same skill level as Serral? He can’t even get the opening moves right.
He can be is what i said, he is the only protoss who has a chance and can consistently, but as I already mentioned, he some times stumbles on occasion, but his skill level far outweighs his mistakes, like he lost a game on kungfu or something coz he scuffed a recall, and here, he played 6 maps and the same build each time, and the last 2, serral figured it out and crushed it, tho there was a window where he could have jumped the morphing broodlords. Either way, most of the top toss can’t even come close to the /clem/reynor/maru/byun/cure/maxpax level
Lmao. Let me tell you what I’d expect from a champion-tier protoss. He’d deny 100% of scouting, would give a false read on his opener, and he would kill 2 drones with his adept and his adept would get away. This is not champion-tier play. It isn’t. Serral gets a free full scout and a free adept kill. That’s legit diamond-level play.
Protoss don’t win tournaments because they don’t have anyone who is even remotely close to Serral or Dark or Maru in skill level. Don’t get me wrong, MaxPax is a phenomenal player, but he’s one cut below the world’s best.
and has done that multiple times, but not consistently enough, he had the best chance here to beat serral, but it shows just how far and away peak serral is even from maxpax, the best protoss on the planet , and can still make unforced errors which you can’t do against a x2 world champion. But until he can reliably not go on losing streaks to terrans too, who knows. The map pool is garbage and not helping things,
Yep. He’s always one step behind Serral when it comes to multitasking. Watch this series of events:
Serral pulls the drones before the zealots even finish warping in. Maxpax pulls his probes late. Maxpax has a chance to focus fire the hatchery, but doesn’t. Maxpax’s zealots in the main are sitting and doing nothing, when serral is already in position to deal with them. The zealots then amove into queens and die when they’ve already killed a hatchery. Maxpax has a second chance to kill the hatchery with the stalkers, and doesn’t. The zealots are back at the hatchery on the left, and rather than focus firing it they go after some lings. At almost every point, MaxPax is reacting late to critical game events, and he’s missing out on huge opportunities as a result.
These are just multitasking mistakes. He’s not as fast with his hands as Serral is.
he still won that g2 however, and g4 was solid due to forcing hydras. for what it is tho his multi tasking is almost serral level as has shown in games vs Clem and Byun, at least the best for protoss. Microing multiple control group armies, macroing, warp prism juggling, blink stalker micro, warpins, defending drops, he has shown moments of just absurd levels of control and attention, and at other times shown to derp out on occasion, such as the series with Byun where he lost game due to a disrupter killing something like 22 of his own army supply, It is at least clem level.
Some games he will make you think " OMG I CAN’T BELIEVE HE JUST DID THAT ! " then some games you will be like " OMG! I CAN’T BELIEVE HE JUST DID THAT??!?!?!? "
Isn’t that due to how warpgate mechanics work ? If you have 2k minerals but all your warpgates are on cooldown then how do you want to spend your money ? Aside from robo/stargate protoss cannot queue units like terran or zerg.
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This. If you’re on cooldown with enough bases it’s pretty easy to pool minerals until the next round of warp-ins occur, even with 13~ gates in the late game. This happens mostly in the mid-to-late game where your economy is solid. Also since there is no queue for WGs, creating new units requires just-in-time direct actuation, unlike queueing Terran armies to drain a bank, even during a fight. Not sure why people insist on ignoring that factor, it’s almost weird.
Of course that doesn’t excuse all instances of pro-protoss not spending their cash correctly during initial build-up. But overall I do agree, Protoss is in need of a few buffs here and there at the pro-level.
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Nope, they float money when they have the ability to spend it. It happens all the time even at the highest levels. The best protoss on record, Zest, was notorious for missing warpgate timings. He’d lose games that he had no business losing because he didn’t spend his money. I’ve seen Hero do it. I’ve seen Zoun do it. If you look at the games between Serral and MaxPax from the most recent premier tournament, MaxPax is usually one step behind in reacting to events.
If Protoss can’t win premier tournaments, it is 100% a skill issue.
Protoss were hitting 61% win-rates in the pro scene last year, and they still couldn’t win tournaments. Protoss was factually more overpowered then than any race ever has been in the history of the game, and they still couldn’t win. It’s a skill issue.
Balance still favors Protoss because ~43% of GM is Protoss when it should be ~33%. Even so, MaxPax still can’t beat Serral. Serral, Dark, and Maru are simply better players.
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By the way, skill is roughly normally distributed. Serral, dark, maru, etc, are sigma 4+, meaning they are 4 standard deviations from the average. We can calculate how likely it is that there is a large skill difference between the peak talent from each of three groups. We can plot the probability of these outcomes on a chart:
https://i.imgur.com/eO07RO8.png
There is a 50% chance that the difference between the peak talent of each group is >= 0.3 standard deviations. That means it’s a highly likely outcome that one race is going to dominate the biggest tournaments in a given region, and that’s exactly what happens.
If you take the average performance of the top 5 of each group and subtract it from the average of the top 5 of each other group, there is a 50% chance the difference is >= 0.2. The point is, you can’t attribute premier tournament outcomes to balance when there is such a large variability in skill. The probability that the top 5 of one race are better than the top 5 of another is simply very, very high.
If you look at Grandmaster by comparison, the probability that Protoss could dominate 43% of the GM slots worldwide is basically 0% unless Protoss is overpowered. It’s simply a mathematical fact that Protoss is overpowered, and that top Protoss are just bad players.
Strongly disagree, and this is a pretty bad conflation of stats vs. game balance (assuming that % is accurate). The idea that an entire faction of professional players at the highest level of play are unable to win tournaments due to lacking skill, for literal years, is so preposterous it’s almost insidious. Not to mention that race counts in GM have no bearing on tournament wins/ratios and absolutely should not be used to draw any conclusions given the ladder’s many variables. I’m honestly at a loss with how you reached that wild conclusion.
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Maxpax however has 3-0 Dark,3-1 Solar, and 4-3 Maru,and beaten Reynor multiple times, Beat Heromarine, beat Byun, beat Clem, has beaten serral at maps/ladder, but at tournaments it seems Serral is the last hurdle, and Cure afaik since Cure is disgustingly good at TvP .