Already did. I published a complete list of events that Protoss have won. PPP trolls reported the thread until it was removed and I was banned for a week. Kids can’t accept that they aren’t GM even with a massive balance advantage.
Ok… well you just keep believing whatever you want to believe. I personally believe the moon is made of cheese and plan to die attempting to eat it all one day. Good luck to you.
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It’s not a matter of belief. It’s a matter of fact. Protoss utterly dominates the SC2 pro scene, except for a very small selection of tournaments which just so happen to ban the world’s best protoss from even participating.
You don’t even have to take my word for it. Other sites list similar statistics:
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Open_Cups
Protoss take first/second 25% more often than Zerg, and Korea has 40% of the ESL cup wins (while the next best country has 16%). This is clear-cut proof that Protoss is better at winning tournaments, and that Korea has the best Protoss.
Major tournaments:
Balance should be equal tools, not results for me.
I look at win-ratio in GM and Master, where people know how to put their race to limits and get out the best of it.
If you take into consideration 1st and 2nd place of recent premier tournaments, the results are very okay for Protoss.
I have seen no model that could perfectly describe a total of skill of a player, and I don’t expect top 3 players in the world to be all 3 races. Serral deserved his wins in 2018 (he played without any mistakes at some point), and yet was stopped already then by Reynor.
In my view, going above D3 in any race actually involves learning about race, deeply of it’s mechanics, builds, reactions.
Even if someone claims going to GM/Master/Diamond/Gold/Silver and gives up, it’s not an indication for easiness or skill. We have right to abandon the idea. (it involves different results which are off-topic).
I agree with the rest.
Note: Even if The Guy means minor tournaments as well, it still means almost nothing to me, as explained further in bottom text.
Too lazy to reference properly the tournament stuff. Chapter 2.2 .
This is the problem Batz. You data dump a bunch of crap and then leave it on other people to disprove your (mis)information.
A list of “tournaments” with qualifer rounds and group stage wins. Did you know know that “winning” the Ro128 in qualifers for NA is not a tournament win and has a prize pool of zero?
And then we have this ESL crap. First of all, I actually counted it and the Toss wins are 40 if you go by individual player. Zerg and Terran players make up the top 3 players in total wins. Why do you think Maru, TY, Rogue, Innovation, etc. arent listed among any of the wins? BECAUSE THEY ARENT GOING TO WASTE THEIR TIME FOR $100 PRIZE POOL. For the CHANCE to win $100. The guys playing ESL Open Cup are doing it for the points because the Protoss need it because they arent winning tournaments. So when they get knocked out, they are going to ESL to try to get points. The guys who already have lots of points dont care. Any one of these guys could make much more than $100 easily just by streaming for a few hours.
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First, we did this charade in another thread, on the subject of win-rates and you were proven wrong already. You were given the full data set and then proceeded to post the same win-rates that I did. This is that same data set.
Second, a list of every tournament played in 2020 isn’t “crap”. It’s the real, actual tournaments played for 2020. If you aren’t using the SC2 pro scene data to measure balance of the SC2 pro scene, what on Earth are you using?
Third, the trend is of such a large magnitude that you’d need to show a lot more than a small handful of events to cry “bias” in the data. I am sure there are some things in this set that ought to be thrown out, but you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater or in this case all pro tournaments with the 1 bad tournament.
Fourth, this is just one data set published by one guy, which is corroborated by completely independent people publishing different data sets, such as ESL.
Lastly, all this is 100% rock solid proof that Protoss dominates the SC2 pro scene when it comes to winning tournaments. Premier events are trash for measuring balance and always will be as long as the region lock bans the world’s best protoss from even participating.
I have tried to be civil with you but I have to call a spade a spade. Everything you posted is littered with half truths. Some of it is outright lies. And a big project for me to go through your data again.
You didnt actually prove anything because 1. The data isn’t tournament wins, it is mostly winning groups or qualifiers or many very minor tournaments. 2. Even if we assume the data is mostly correct, there is no proof that Zerg and Terrans wins, measured with the same level of fidelity (or lack thereof) are less than the Protoss wins. You didnt list the Zerg and Terran wins to compare.
Again with the warped characterization. I didnt realize that you posted the statistics twice. Once without qualifiers included. When I pointed out that the numbers without qualifiers showed that PvZ and PvT were close to balanced and even Zerg and Terran favored, THEN you insisted that the data wasnt valid without qualifiers involved. Back then I agreed to disagree. Now, I straight up have to say, you are manipulating data to whatever conclusion you want to come to.
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Protoss winning the majority of the ESL tournaments, which is a fact posted not by me but by ESL/teamliquid, is a half truth / lie?
When you start spouting patent absurdities, it’s time to rectify your beliefs with reality, kiddo.
Its a fact that proves nothing. Why do you think that not a single one of the top 4 Koreans in EPT points have won an ESL open cup? TY, Rogue, Maru, and Innovation dont need to. They are already so high in EPT points that the chance for $100 and a measly 10 points is literally a waste of their time. TY and Rogue are literally already statistical locks. That is why you dont see the top Korean Zerg/Terran playing much, if at all in ESL open cups. Nor do you see Serral much because he knows he doesnt need the points and the money is peanuts.
But yeah, I guess I am the one out to lunch trying to contradict your “definitive proof”. Keep the jokes coming, this is hilarious.
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Proof. That protoss win most. Is proof of nothing? This forum. Is scourge of internet… constant hurricane of nonsense… embarrassed of mankind…
Thanks for the sentence fragments of insight, hidden profile bar code named user.
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Yeah I love how he says the outcome of the actual tournaments of 2020 are “lies”. He’s gone full blown flat-earth conspiracy theorist levels of denial. He just can’t admit that protoss wins more than he thought that they did.
These forums are filled with some of the most egregiously biased trolls I have ever witnessed on the entire internet. Sometimes I come here to remind myself that I am sane - I see the posts here and think, “Hmmm. I guess I am not so crazy after all.”