do you even know how the mission is played
the fact you sat there and said what you did shows you dont even play coop
I use tychus p3 as a dual army 8 control group for researches and army and seperate dogwalker control pug carrier.
Tychus is not a 7-9 minute speedrunning commander.
He can pretty much run the ring and easily protect allies with three medivacs, but having him compare 7-9 minute runs where he’d have spent 80% of the run on two cash strapped outlaws would be infeasible. A sequence breaking abathur will always be faster but only like 0.1% can play him that fast and if you put all your eggs into a lure and get bunkerterran, 33% of the time you’re going to have less consistent sequence breaks.
The speedruns use the best replay i assume and a 2-3 outlaw tychus has to pick between chainfires or healers and he doesn’t have free 15 sec visionless teleports. A pre nerfs 200% lone wolf tychus with ability control maybe. But tychus does not do 7-9 minute miner evacuations.
I’ve had pretty easy 11-13 minute void thrashings leveling but those are just more features of p0-2 being able to nuke the last base at 10 than anything else. Might have had a pug dehaka ally do 9-12 mins voids leveling prestiege. Can’t remember. But 7-9 minute general maps. They’re speedrunning on sequence breakers for the best run for a reason. Now i don’t know sc2 speedruns but i did another game and i remember we did guild practice 20 times for 20 tricks that had like a 5% chance to work to save 1 second.
And when you want the fastest times, anything that isn’t a record is seen as a loss. I remember seeing lilarrin once chilling inchat ingame. He had some pretty inane lists of solos and times for all his games but he also had like lists of 40 abandoned runs in a row for every 1 game that became a 7-9 minute speedruns.
Though he’d still usually have piles of solos that were just a few minutes slower, i assume. Regardless if he has 40 aborted missions before speedruns.
It would not surprise me at all but there was stuff like 13 minute artanis part and parcel solos on some of those players doing brutal solo speedruns competitions. 90% of pugs on that map
are like averaging 18-24 minute games on that map. Player skill and multiple command groups on commanders that can afford it is great. But tychus does not seperate well without p2 and even most people who can simultaneously control 3-5 seperate control groups at once or get pixel perfect ability targeting of 5 on a map or minimap control 3-5 and juggle 3-5 microed outlaws willingly 24/7 is pretty niche.
Theres just not a lot that compares to a sequence broken 15 s teleporting abathur or 2-5 split armies with potentially 2-4 bases of solo income doing 13 minute artanis parcels can do.
It’ll all probably be like discussing like sc2 rocket physics to someone who might not even be playing artanis at even a basic level. But tychus is not deep tunneling and summoning 3 clones of himself by the 3 minute mark.
You can honestly use just Zealots Dragoons and Observers and comfortably clear every mission on Brutal difficulty. Artanis is really that easy.
Some other good unit comps for him that are more specialized include Zealot/Immortal/Phoenix, Zealot/Tempest, Zealot/Archon/Dragoon/Immortal, etc. etc.
Artanis’ core army is really strong and pretty easy to use. You can add in support units to better combat any specific need you have. Immortals counter big tough ground units like Hybrid, Ultralisks, Thors, Siege Tanks and other Immortals. Phoenix are your answer for mobility and are good anti-air. Tempest are your powerful deathball that can push objectives cost effectively. Reavers are good vs Infested missions.
Archons or High Templar with Storm are good vs basically everything but are high gas investment. Use them if you know how and are good at microing them. If not, just save the gas and spend more on easier to use army units.
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the problem is you assume with no clear evidence. the fact i had to point out to all you noobs that there was no evidence of it being brutal was a sheer fact in your stupidity, i can also tell you if it was true legit speed run they would show the difficulty before starting the match, and third if it was an actual speed run there would be alot more comments on the vid. that alone right there shows its fake
exactly right20 cccss
frankly that anyone does a speed run of anything what ever game it is and is legit will show the diffuculty setting. plain and simple for this fact alone. because if they are to be the king of a speed run proof is needed.
And yeah, anyone who plays brutal enough and plays casual or hard will notice immediately that the game speed is painfully slow from 1.5x speed faster. And ship spawns and enemy locations.
Lilarrin will joke about running easy sometimes but dude has like 20 missions with videos of each. Hard has like half the units and like a 60% speed casual with a center ship and 2-5 marine waves instead of like 50 brutal is blatant.
Casual is clearly designed as a mode it attacks you at slow speed with weaksauce units so people can get used to wave timing, defense, have time to mess with build order and learn their first rts and that’s fine.
But anyone with 2 braincells with abathur and brutal gets a feel and it’d be obvious with video that if someone changed difficulty you’d get baby waves and even less abathur brutalisks. They’d literally need a identical second perfect identical biomass to snip a proper done identical lure that’d still have to be the same difficulty for the biomass and waves to match anyways.
Which would still be brutal, or casual’s incredibly obvious 10% size attack waves and middle ships lmao which would mess the brutalisks. speedrunner abathur is a special commander for a reason.
This is true, P2 can do some magic, but until then Tychus had some of the worst clear times out of any commander.
Anyway, amongst all the noise, I’d say the truth is there. Dragoons are a good unit, but suffer when massed. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Against ground, Immortals are better than Dragoons for dps for supply, and against armoured ground also better for cost (this is even putting aside hit-scan versus wasted shots). Zealots and storm outperform for massed light.
Against air, Dragoons are best for armoured, Phoenix and storm greatly outstrip it for light though.
Your economy won’t be an issue making the units, properly countering means you’ll suffer little loss; so a well built army will naturally cause you to have a surplus by the end due to supply cap, unless you are pushing hard to finish asap. (Which mass dragoon will have a hard time with)
To use less words, anyone with experience in the game is laughing, with you at you at that comment lol. Anyone worth their salt who ever seen anyone play hard or easy on miner evac will know it changes the first ship, faster game speed (1.5x slower), spawns obvious less waves (recognized brutal spawns), and its a dude who’s done like 80 proven speedruns.
If you see a 2 marine easy attack wave instead of 50, let us know.
again where is the proof in the clip, the dude cuts out the difficutly setting entirely in the vid clip, other wise fake, good luck debunking it. plain and simple any speed runner worth there wait in gold will show you the difficulty of the match regardless of the game for this very reason so no one questions the legitimacy of it. the fact that brutal is not shown and the unit count on the first attack shows its not brutal. its a fake clip simple as that
Anyway, sorry Visions, the forum gets a little “better than thou” at times, but this silliness is rare. If you have any other questions, we’d love to answer.
If anyone wants to see the full leaderboard, or watch some more speedruns this is the link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/19e94QlfZvXaCcsMLGMXaN5fILDkshbppDb6yIfEwl0s/htmlview
And, sorry LilArrin for bringing you up just to have your name dragged like that. You just kept having the best scores of the ones I wanted to post 
I’m usually very against forum’s report cuz it’s a terrible system and moderators are honestly very poor.
And I’m against speech suppression, which is their motto.
This topic though has been honestly like that. No substance (even beyond most of my quibbles lol) at all between the arguments. It’s all just “proof this, doubt that”… not even about coop at all, just “I don’t believe you, bla!”
This Winter dude needs to chill. Seems like the type that needs math, physics, biology and the entirety of humanity explained in details to believe anything but his own opinion.
Being apparently so smart that only he can’t play Artanis. So intelligent that somehow neglect to ask the most simple yet important question:
”Why in the world would anyone want to deceive him with a trivial coop game or fact?”
Guess everyone is out to get him. 
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Obviously all of coop is out to get him. I mean, who could be right, a forum full of people who have had multiple discussions over nearly every aspect of coop, or one troll boi who keeps flip flopping to get into the most arguments.
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Flip flop boi is right. He gets another 
. And then still can’t sinatrA…
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100 iq: “I want to get better at artanis, so what other units could i try to get better at him?”
404 iq: "I don’t know how to play artanis. So the best speedrunners in the game must be playing fastest brutal on casual to hide the fact they are not playing on slowest gamespeed casual!!, and i’ll debunk this by pointing out ive never tried playing the map on casual and one map on brutal to point out the ship’s not spawning on casual! "
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Where’s the “Don’t listen to Terry” guy when you need him for a change?
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Please just report the troll. Visions came here for some constructive advice and is having his post derailed by a name-caller who chooses to attack all co-op players.
Depends on what you’re up against. In a nutshell for me…
Zealots - with whirlwind for anti-swarmy, to tank, and min dump
Goons - vs. air, and others to tank for them (e.g. Zlots or your ally)
HT - for Psi Storm for AoE/anti-swarmy
Immortal - high AG DPS
Obs - for detection
Honestly depends upon what you’re staring down. Most of what I play comes down to…
-Mass Dragoons
-Zealot/Templar (with Energy/CD Mastery, P1 is also encouraged but not required.)
-Zealot/Tempest (You float a lot of minerals and should be helping early on anyway. cough coughPub playerscough cough)
-Zealot/Dragoon/Immortal/Reaver is a fun one for just obliterating ground waves.
If you really want to meme, P1 with Zealot/Reaver is fun. Mass Slugbois can rapidly nuke things with effectively no Scarab downtime.
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