Mostly just talking about Artanis since he’s the only one I play atm, but as of right now I really only use Dragoons once they’re upgraded simply because I feel like, unless its zerg, every other unit just feels weaker to some degree.
use what ever unit is works best for you, duh.
Check out the website “starcraft2coop” for useful info.
Not sure what level your Artanis is but dont judge units too harshly until you unlocked all their relevant upgrades (1 to 15 commander level).
Artanis has some really solid and good units, depending on what situation & enemy you are facing.
Perhaps avoid going for Phoenix and Tempest until you are more experienced with the rest of Artanis units and upgrades/unlocks.
I think you should prioritize at the moment your opening build orders. Check out starcraft2coop.com and YouTube for some guidance.
If you’re asking if you should prioritize something over Dragoons, then the fundamental issue is your economy isn’t up fast enough when they need to be. This is why “every other unit” feels weak.
It isn’t to say you don’t make Dragoons, just that overall mass Dragoons are amongst the slowest strategies Artanis have. Reasons being (1) body blocking so you have a much harder time maximizing your DPS, and (2) overkill as they are not “hit-scan”, so a bunch of volleys hit the same target all the time.
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the bigest problem in coop is there really isnt alot of minerals on the maps. I always favored the cheep units over the pricy ones. When i played artanis dragoon zealot was really all i used, unless i decided to try and take one of the extra enemy mineral patchs which is only on 3 of the maps if memory serves. Kinda hard to justify building expensive units when you have very limited eco, not saying they dont help but again your only working with so much money on the maps.
Perhaps you need to work on your build order since it sounds like you’re not getting your eco up quickly enough. Or maybe you’re losing too many units. You should have no problems maxing on most maps with zealot/immortal/goon/ht or even P1 mass HT.
Maxing out is pointless anyway, as long as you’ve got a strong enough force. You’ll never win the supply race against Amon, point in coop is to have a force that beats them decisively regardless.
Per Artanis unit comps, Immortals are just better anti-ground units than Dragoons, so against ground Zealot/Immortal (with some Dragoons for the occasional air) is better. Against air, Dragoons are decent for heavy air, but storm is miles away better for non capital ship waves.
I’d recommend Zealot/Immortal/Dragoons and Zealot/Archon if you are looking to mix it up over just mass Dragoons.
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The biggest problem is players thinking high tech units are only affordable on 3-4 bases. This isn’t ladder, and even on ladder you can reach high tech on 2-base. The only reason it isn’t common there is because you’re “trading”, which isn’t happening against Amon in coop…
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so amon in coop is the problem…kinda a far stretch there bud. Obvioulsy this isnt ladder. its coop, were you are absolutely limited to map rescorsces unlike ladder where you can get a ton of more bases. Coop your pretty much limited to a certain rescourse gain each map. All coop except for the one map were zombies hit you,“dead of night” your limited to exactly two bases, with the exception of the 3 maps i said have a third mineral base in the enemy terrain. So yes your severly limited on eco compared to ladder maps. yeah you can spend the money on the higher end units but then your shorted on mass which most of these maps need.
Yeah most commanders have a couple of ways to play them and as long as they beat the mission and contribute well can be great allies.
But some common example comps are as mentioned. The common p0/p3 self regenerating hp dragoons + spinlots for standard brutal.
You can get many warpgates to produce and say use a couple keybinds. Like 1 to nexuses for chrono, 2 warpgates, 3-4 army 1 and 2 if wanted, 5-6 research buildings/robo bay/twilight council, etc.
If you use artanis there were like upgrades added to let the dragoons self regenerate hp, they’re basically like fat p1 raynor marines and their moblity is low but artanis can be a straightforward to play commander.
As mentioned you can mix comps in, templars for storm/shields or reavers oe tempests. (Tried em, never been too big, i feel like overly slow units with good range but slow movement speed makes low mobility payoffs less ideal vs easily game ending abathurs. )
Kerrigan can also do like brutal alone off her hero unit and keybinding her nydus worms also makes a great commander.
Mass mule + micro out of storms p0/p1 raynor can also be a decent f2p baseline commander. But he’s semi notorious for being horrficly common for most players 1 base nonchallenge 200/200 to 150/200 blunder wonder as his units easily die if not moved out of storms.
And 1-2 base p0 without 4-8 mules ccs is pretty much just a glass cannon without the cannon.
But pretty much every commander can benefit from unit micro, moving damaged units/dragoons to the back to heal them. Building multiple gateways/barracks and hotkeying it to produce em, hot keying your research buildings, etc.
You should be able to like usually max out 200/200 on most any commanders by the 15-25 minute mark for a base brutap unless you take horrific losses. P0 artanis can have a bit of a minute or two opening up expac with no starting hero but p3 easily solves that.
His on demand mobility without p1 can kinda be low just like p1 raynor vs a nydus worm kerrigan, deep tunnel dehaka/abathurs, medivac tychus, etc. But his guardian shell can do some pretty busted stuff to zerglings and glass marines/hh.
Theres usually multiple pve viable comps for each commander. Pick whichever ones you like best. Tl and sc2 coop guides always are great sources for pre prestiege/buff guides. https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/527245-co-op-commander-guide-artanis
Personally as artanis a 2 stargate tempest rush has worked for me, you might have to orbital bombardment the first wave if your ally isn’t able to clear it themselves but then you got tempest tech which can carry you through the rest of the mission most of the time.
im gonna make a bit of a jump from my previous statement, its not even the minerals that are the main problem, its lack of gas. at most you have 4 gas mines on all maps with the exception of dead of night where you have 3, unless your on the 3 maps that have the extra minerals hidden in the enemy territory. (train map, snowy shuttle map, and the one with the locks if im not mistaken). The gas alone for most units is pretty damn high unless you play with a kerrigan or the one terran, god i cant think of his name.
dude your on a time limit for every map theres absolutely no rushing in coop.
And i mean fair, you definitely have less bases than ladder but you don’t have to like, worry about split hellion forces attacking your workers or liberators beyond a mountain attacking worker lines, etc. Or bases mining out. (Unless 2+ hr don or 10-20 cc raynor, being bored).
You also don’t get immortality shields, solar bombardments that can often solo the last area of void thrashers or solo complete a dicey se bonus in miner’s evacuation.
Or 1000 hp hero units 4 minutes into a game or the potential for 3x 1500 hp brutalisks with 200-400 hp symboites with 15 sec tunnels haha. Coop is a pretty fun game.
You’ll get used to it but the only commanders that need to trade to amon are the suicide commanders with free banelings and units if you want it to be haha. Many commanders get op coop stuff to compensate.
I half play p3 odin just because trying to kill a 4000 hp unit on tychus without the tychus is a 70 + 14 + 30 dps time waste lmao.
Its difficult to even intentionally kill some units so i pretty much always play p3 ordering the odin and main army separately and commanding two wave busters at once.
But people would still slam the p3 odin for not having nukes or more sirius turrets even though its building dps is like, would be worth 5-8 of them. Because its usually used as a slow 6th outlaw on a commander who’s already good and bulky.
Yet the moment pugs say they want “harder commanders”, they instaquit on raynor and abathur even though they don’t have to be that hard, smh.
Abathur might not be chain linking 3 apm jesuses brutalisk leviathan teams by 4 minutes in and reverse solo clearing a map in 7 minutes like a speedrunner’s perfect 1/40 best comp, best time, best map run.
But even with a few lures and a couple brutas. His only minor hiccup might be that he doesn’t reliably lure against bunkered airterran that much as juicy zergling/protoss biomass drop for early brutas, he’s still usually defensively fine and was well known for one of the best pre presitege sequence breaking speedruns. Since abathur was more biomass dependant than mineral or resource dependent, in speedrunners hands he could sequence break the game. But even for average abathurs, setting up good traps or helping lure into nests for their bonus biomass can help them quite a bit. He’s extemely powerful in the right hands mid/lategame when biomassed right and even had like the most p0 mutations soloed before prestieges. Did 99% of players play him to apm jesus? Nah.
Did he have insane speedrunning videos with most pre prestiege videos being abathur solos or abathur + dehaka speedrunner duos? Yeah. That was the power of two biomass fueled zergling commanders together. Coop has playstyles for everyone. Get the ones you enjoy!
Not entirely true, I’d say there’s three map styles in coop; timed (like VP and MO), partner limited (where you need your partner to continue, like L&L and CoA), and no limit.
Unless you’re playing a timed mission, it’s entirely possible to rush the mission down.
Economy is limited compared to ladder, but you can quite easily make a strong army with it, so long are you don’t aim for the absurd comps like pure BC or BCL. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, max supply is just a state, it’s not the deciding factor in any game, ladder or coop.
no offense or anything but your talking way too techinical out your as for the the noobs. You got a guy here asking which is the better unit to use, do you really think hes gonna understand anything you just said, hell im like level 90 coop and barely understand the crap your spewing.
um no, literaly every single coop map is set on a timer for things to happen
now you can speed the timer up by killing the objective at that time faster, but there is still a timer
The fastest speedrun time on lock and load is 2:59. Does more really need to be said?
Just over half the missions have a timer for defeat, not victory.
Edit: in fact, due to mutators, even the missions that have a cap on how fast you can complete a game can often basically require rushing to make things reasonable.
seriously i would love to see a speed run of lock in load in under three minutes. my question is what difficulty,