What buffs do protoss actually want

General Discussion
1

Since the balance team obviously has no clue. +20 to adept shield at a point in the game where adept is starting to be phased out… yeah… that’s going to help a ton.

I’m not a toss player but I’m not really opposed to the idea that protoss is UP at the pro level, aligulac results show that consistently over time. I see protoss players complain about balance but they rarely suggest things.

Personally i think blizzard, if they give toss buffs, it should be ones that raise the skill ceiling. That would probably have no effect on the lower leagues where there is no skill to begin with, and where toss already dominates.

For instance, instead of charge give zealots their old broodwar leg speed back. They would be much faster and more powerful in general in late game, but toss would have to actually micro to get the full benefit.

Also giving carriers graviton catapult back would make “leash micro” more effective similar to how zergs use broodlords.

If blizz want to buff adepts, give them an upgrade to shade faster and “complete” the shade on demand. That would make them more maneuverable without making early game rushes broken.

These are just examples, my general point is this: blizz is trying to “balance” the game by raising some HP here, taking some away there… that’s not going to make the game less stale, nor going to really fix things at the pro level. One thing we’re learning is that zerg simply gets more benefit from micro especially in late game. They have 3 viable casters (queen, infestor, viper) while toss has one, HT. Maybe 1.5 if you want to count oracles for some reason.

That might not matter for below GM but at very high level, a lower skill ceiling for toss has a noticeable effect. There are ways to fix things and make pro games more exciting, add micro the game and not make things worse in the scrub tier leagues. Blizz needs to start thinking creatively, and honestly so do people here. Instead of whining about your race being UP over and over propose a solution more people can get behind.

iMasturb8ed out.

3 Likes
2

+20 shields should be increased to +30 shields to be more worth getting.

Also the upgrade is a good idea, but the Adept itself has to be worth using and investing into. Making Adepts attack air would be the perfect change to do that.

GC shouldn’t come back as the same upgrade. Instead it should increase Interceptor launch range from 8 to 10.

That would do absolutely nothing when it comes to mid-late game usages and would come out too late.

Shields is a better upgrade because you always get the benefit of a HP upgrade.

Terran has something similar because Raven’s are lacking in TvP and TvZ because they cost too much and are limited to a tech lab.

Building in Corvid Reactor would be a great way to buff Ravens. Also making Auto-turret have a cast range of 3 again.

Also they really need to fix the bug AAM has currently where splash damage is unaffected by AAM.

Oracles should be buffed by making Stasis ward 25 energy or increasing the cast range of it to 7.

3

But adepts don’t really fit any role except “cheese on early game”. They are countered by banelings and roachs (so the main units produced by zerg on midgame), and fade against upgraded bio. Also, chargelots are simply better than them, and cost no gas, and as the upgrade is no cheap, there is so reason not to skip adept and go right into chargelots.

4

I mostly agree but im saying, thats just a random example off the top of my head. The point is when we think about a race being UP lets try to not just complain, but come up with creative ideas than just giving their units more HP.

I think blizz needs to really focus on making the game, and the meta, more skillful and fun to watch if they want to actually draw in more players/viewers. Not just balance. If all we do online is say “wah my race is UP” then blizzard might get the impression thats all players care about is their winrate.

I personally dont even see what cool moves a toss can even do in late game vs zerg. Carrier with the ability to “hit and run” and snipe things would at least be something. If we raise the skill ceiling on toss it will give the pros a chance to really shine and make people say “wow this game is sick.” There currently arent many moments like this in late game pvz. Its the zerg just waiting forever for toss to attack and then fungal, parasitic bomb, neural -> gg.

1 Like
5

They are a ranged anti-light gateway unit that can be used to supplement stalkers or zealots depending on composition and threat.

6

Anti ground light.

7

Personally I’d settle for just not nerfing observers for no reason.

4 Likes
8

For now. For now…

9

Good on you for having a go, but I think you’ll find most Protoss players gave up on giving suggestions to Blizzard a while ago. That was the biggest lesson of the LotV Beta.

I was thinking of putting together a longer post, but it’s hard to see the point when the game is being balanced around Twitch chat, memes and reddit whine rather than winrates at the highest level.

1 Like
10

Where is the evidence of that?

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11

The biggest “buff” Protoss could hope for is a change in the biased attitude the balance/design team has shown since day 1.

We’re talking about the guys who nerfed the assimilator(??), the guys who are nerfing the observer because it “frustrates” some people when they fail to kill it(LOL??).
The guys who nerfed the colossus/carrier/tempest into complete jokes, while constantly reworking trash units no one likes such as the cyclone/SH/WMs to make sure they have a place in the game.

Forget buffs and balance, a change on their bullsh1t attitude towards Protoss is all one can wish for.

6 Likes
12

I feel you, but half the people here still have time to balance whine, so they may as well do it properly. Gotta harness those energies for good.

13

Don’t provoke myohmind

I don’t think protoss needs buffs (maybe the tempest), I think zerg late game needs nerfs

14

While it’s true Infestors need nerfs, going Infestor-Brood is zergs only option since Ultralisk and Lurkers are lack luster.

They do.

Making Adepts more viable in the midgame, making the mothership immune to NP and Abduct, making the colossus more viable vs Z and P, etc

15

Nerfs that will still make them viable, I just want the protoss to have a fighting chance without having to outplay the zerg 10x

A buff might break PvT balance which is in a nice spot I think

Adept is a redundant unit, it should as well never be implemented to begin with

16

Not true at all, it depends on how you buff it. Also TvP needs more variety like more viable TvP Mech and mid game Adepts.

And we can’t forget mid game Reapers.

By that logic half of Terrans units shouldn’t exist.

Adepts have a role and a core unit design, gateway ranged anti-light.

Half the time you are fighting a base defense wall and free units.

17

Speak for yourself, I think bio play is much more enjoyable to watch than mech, I already disliked how ZvT shifted from bio to mech, don’t want PvT to follow that path

Reapers for example, 10 years of starcraft and they never found an use for it

Protoss has no issues fighting light units, thus redundant unit

18

It’s same thing all the time. MMM

Everyone knows TvP is a dull 1 playstyle match up.

MMM with stim or 2 base all-in = Dead Protoss

Protoss gets AOE = Dead Terran

Predictable cycle and it’s why TvP is a balance mess in the first place. It’s brittle for both sides because Mech isn’t as viable as it could be in TvP.

ZvT is still various Bio and Mech styles with shifts in popularity over time, PvT is just Bio.

You are advocating for SC2 being bad. You don’t want to see greater success.

Because they gutted the unit of everything interesting about it.

Vs structure attack
Bonus vs Light
Combat Awareness(seeing up cliffs)
Stim Pack(Early early Beta)

They frequently do as shown by the meta history of the game and the compositions. Ground and Air.

19

That’s not what I usually watch in pro matchs, they frequently go to late game or produce a back and forth midgame with constant fights until one side crumbles

They couldn’t find a way to make the reaper viable without it being OP, that’s why it’s a stupid unit

I don’t agree but OK

Have no idea where you got this from

20

You still can make it viable without it being OP.

Guess what?.

You would have the exact same with viable TvP Mech and mid game Adepts. TvP is desperately in need of variety.