Hey guys,
CtG managed to deliver 19 out of 20 crystals using only Probius (the hero probe after you build all the other 6 heroes), using Karax as partner, chrono boost… Do you think is there a way to deliver ALL crystals? if so how?
Thanks
I don’t understand your question. Why isn’t it possible to deliver all crystals with probius?
It’s just a slower delivery time. The map isn’t any harder. The only added difficulty is the lengthened extra few minutes or so?
What am I missing here?
4 Likes
The problem is to deliver the first crystal using Probius, its quite challenging to have Probius in due time before the planet explodes.
1 Like
Well if you’re allowed an active partner why not have a Vorazun ally put down a Void Pylon right as the game starts then have him leave (or have him stay to recall Probius to crystals, whatever is more optimal)
Is it possible to recall probes carrying crystals? I know they can’t enter nydus. Plus the first 2 crystals are right next to the generator so any teleportation doesn’t really help that much in that regard
No, it is not possible to recall or transport workers carrying crystals. I’ve tried many times.
2 Likes
Depends on your macro. You have 2 iterations of lava before timer runs out. I don’t think this is a real issue. I gave this a try on M’s VP toss, solo P2. The issue you run into is mostly resource related. Mostly unable to get as much out as you’d like (thus the stacked times end up being an issue before timer runs out).
Crystal carrying units cannot be recalled. The only way to speed this up is having Stetmann as a partner to speed up the movement speed via SPEED configuration.
The challenge doesn’t prevent ally from helping. This alone makes it very easy (gave it a try, possible is correct word here, as resources/time is the only barrier). The ally can simply wipe the map. My personal approach would be the following:
- Use P2 Fenix.
- Do not macro as CtG did but instead go with 12 workers pseudo approach (or minimize workers rather than full saturation).
- P2 Stetmann as ally. Best buddy can solo this map far ahead of each spawn iteration, can support income with zone, can speed up crystal transfer, and can provide protection instantly via overcharged shielding to Probius (should you f up).
Biggest take away from the experiment (solo) is that the mineral cost is heavy. Without some additional support, there’s no chance at all. The break down are as follows:
- Structures: Gate (75), Cyber (75),
Citadel (75), Robo (100), Bay (100), Star (75), and Beacon (150). Total mineral cost650575 + 100 x 1 pylon + 75 x 1 assimilator =825min.750min. - Research: 100 + 100/50 x 5 = 600/250 min/gas.
- Champions: Kaldalis (80) + Talis (50/20) + Taldarin (100/40) + Warbringer (120/80) + Mojo (90/30) + Clolarion (140/100) = 580/270 min/gas.
- Total combined:
825min750min. + 600/250 min/gas + 580/270 min/gas =2005/520 min/gas.1930/520 min/gas.
Assuming I didn’t mess up any cost accounting, 12 probes would give you ~4 full saturated mineral rate, so if you used it strictly for minerals only then you’d get ~400min/min x 5min = 2000min (just enough as the rate is slightly higher than ~100min/min per patch). The obvious problem is then where do you get the gas from? You simply don’t. Without supportive ally, you simply cannot do this (as far as I can tell). So ‘time’ isn’t an issue but rather the result of lack of resources.
- The ally can help by either providing additional mineral or gas.
- The obvious one is Stetmann’s zone, which would propel the 4 min-patch rate to 6min patch rate, which would essentially give you 50% more mineral, thus freeing up room to gather gas (at a faster rate as well).
- Alternatives like any Protoss COs, which can at least off load the 100min pylon cost, both saving time and resource. Or in the case of Karax, his Chrono Field would help save some time (and between that and Chrono Wave at 5min).
- Other than that, I can only think of Kerrigan at 4-5min mark to maximize Assimilation Aura for the boost (although I think this might be far too late to get those resources).
- Swann’s vespene drones might help a bit as well, but I think this one is also on the low end of support. I think the math is something like 33% rate for 8 vespene drones, which is ~16.5% for 4 vespene since you can’t expand that fast to make it worth it. And that comes out to be 16.5% of ~100+ gas/min or really just ~20gas/min for 5min. That is something but again not enough to truly help.
Corrections: You don’t need Citadel. Vorazun’s Time Stop can buy you 20sec (much needed time). You can always ask your ally to leave as well after that (thus the influx of resources). I tried again optimizing the probe distribution on resource gathering, you can get enough. Overall, it’s just a really tight challenge timing.
There is literally no way to optimize in a solo-way to get enough resources. Surprisingly even that single Pylon would give you the extra resource/time needed to do other things on time.
Excellent challenge proposal though. This was honestly more of a fun challenge than any mutations by far.
1 Like
Tried it myself. You can do 20/20.
Proof using a Maguro map: https://ibb.co/LJj9CYS
In the video they complain that you can’t get Probius in time for the first crystal. But with a Vorazun ally you can. You just have to use Time Stop.
But yeah, impossible to do solo
2 Likes
Yeah, I came back to add in the Time Stop option from Vorazun (neglected in the previous post). Only to see Grumpy got to it already 
.
Ahhh, Time Stop, great catch!
If your Swann P3 ally quitted, would you be allowed to use its transport to make it easier? (it may only work to go to the crystal, not to come back, though I could not check such a thing)
Also, what’s this about a “first crystal”? Does it mean it’s considered a failure if you let the lava “eat” one crystal? Because otherwise there should be an unlimited supply of crystals…
The issue they are referring to is getting Probius. My big long explanation and analysis eludes to it.
Since only Probius can transport Xenon Crystals, getting them initially is impossible solo. This is because you need to research and also get all 6 champions before you can get Probius. And you lose at exactly 5min without gathering any crystals.
So the issue is really timing of getting that geyser to start mining gas, as well as the initiation of Gate/Cyber. The rest is relatively flexible. As each production structure only has to produce 2 champions, the longest being carrier for Clolarion (as well as Fleet Beacon taking the longest as well to warp). These can easily fit within the 5min mark.
The problem is so you have the resources to do so? And have you then started the champion research and never stopped between each. Since each research can only occur 1 after the next, you need to burn through all 6 continuously without fail. Meanwhile, fit the 6 champion production via 3 structures in between with the spare resources.
And lastly, you need to make that probe to go directly to the Xenon Crystal.
As mentioned previously, it is very surprising that:
- If the player didn’t have to make that Pylon. So you get to start Assimilator faster, as well as Gate/Cyber faster. That 100min is quite the difference.
- Probably shoulda put this first, as it is far more important. The time you have to wait for that initial 15sec to get 100min, then waiting to warp-in the Pylon for another 30sec. It all takes away almost 20% of your total time.
And that’s why solo and starting up is next to impossible without a partner.
Unfortunately, M’s ai partner for Artanis doesn’t auto spawn the psi field. I attempted to see in 1 of 4 different strategies, but alas it doesn’t. I think it might be possible if you go in with a human partner. And they don’t do anything, but you just end up using Artanis’s field. Then again, it is kind of moot even if you do succeed. After all, you’d still needed an ally to complete it regardless. So the result isn’t any different.
P.S. In case, someone is wondering why I type Gate/Cyber. Gate takes 65sec while Cyber 60. So technically you can save 5sec on the champion start up time. Aka, Talis first. Since both structures are the cheapest out of the bunch at 75min and fastest.
I tried it solo with resource cheat, putting down first pylon and then core (50s to warp in) in the mineral line right at the start, but I am still 1 second short.
https://ibb.co/fNSWz9F
I am positive that unless I am missing something, this is impossible solo even for a micro+macro god due to the 2.786+2.786+0.5 = 6,072 seconds (plus travel time!) required to mine additional 50+ minerals needed for the first pylon.
Interestingly, it is not necessary (at least on Maguro’s maps) to warp in the champions to get Probius, only to research them, which saves money, but not time, so the above still stands.
With Artanis (Project power field), Karax (instant pylon+chrono field) or Vorazun (dark pylon+time stop) partner it should be possible (without cheating), but I doubt it would be “very easy”.
Hey, next time try to read and quote the whole thing.
It says very easy with ally. And then it was edited with “possible with ally”. Thanks for skewing the quote by just quoting “very easy”.
I am glad you brought up something that I didn’t know, which is Probius doesn’t require champions created but rather them researched.
This actually changes it back to “very easy with ally", as the problem is resource that blocks it. So no bud, it isn’t time at all. So I’d say your build order has issues if you can’t get all six champions researched by 4:30min-4:45min. This is especially true if you have an ally to help. A single Field/Pylon alone save you 30sec (as was already discussed previously).
I’m going to do another run with the new information here:
There ya go, hope the replay link works. 4:53 is when Probius gets the Xenon Crystal in, with 10sec before exploding displayed on the top right counter. And I proceeded to grab the other 3, and you’re literally back on track by 6:30min.
https://file.io/coMBb0zARKyN
Like I said, your build order has issues. I will note a few things:
- You need a Karax ally’s Chrono Field for this ‘solo thing’ to be possible.
- You need your Chrono Boost mastery at full 30% on top of that.
- You need pylon first, as this directly affects your Cyber Core for Talis.
- You need only 2 gas-probes initially, as Kaldalis can be researched after.
- After the buffering on gas via Kaldalis, all you’re doing is making sure tech buildings and up before each champions can be researched NON-STOP.
So, it is possible solo but not quite unless you semi-cheat using Karax ally for his Chrono Field (no, not wave lol). (Yes, I tried with Raynor ally, and you end up falling short about 15sec or so.)
Again, thanks for prompting me to learn more about Probius. I should have checked before. It would have saved me a few tries, though it is all for fun.
-
I think YOU did not read MY post properly because I mentioned ally (specifically Artanis, Karax or Vorazun - I don’t think any other can help) when writing that I don’t think it’s “very easy” and I stand by it. And just because you might have different opinion about what is very easy, it does not invalidate mine. And anyone can click on the arrow in the quote box to see the full original message, so there is no “skewing”. I quoted just the part to which I was referring to to make it clear.
-
You keep critisising “my build order” when you haven’t seen any and there even isn’t one, because I wrote that I did solo with extra resource command (just to check if it’s even theoretically possible, before trying to make buildorder) but with no speedup (like chrono field from ally) apart from Fenixes own chrono boost (+mastery).
-
you say that is’t not a time issue at all (“bud”) but a resource issue … so you solved it by your ally giving you more resources? (like swanns drones or kerrigans aura) No, you did it by having speed passive, which disproves your own words. If you disagree, you can show replay where you give yourself additional resources but use no ability to build or research faster/sooner than what solo Fenix normally has (or stop time …) and do it with 10s+ to spare …
PS. If I were to write this post the way you do it, I would also have to criticise and ridicule you several times for apparently not knowing that you can click on a buton in the quote to see the original post, not knowing that you don’t need to build the champions plus for few other things that you did not even say but I would just pretend that you did 
You assume too much of reader, while I don’t expect nor should we practice to quote a massive block. I don’t think it was crrraaaazy of me to ask you to quote 3-4 extra words?
The criticism, if you call it that, is just a statement of fact. Since I posted my replay and showed that it is possible, then I therefore know how the build order needs to be for this to work. So no need to take massive offence here.
Yes, the issue is a resource issue that leads to time. This was stated in the original analysis. I mean sure we can agree to disagree. The resource part was used back at the “we need an ally” analysis. I stand by that because that was by far the more prominent resource that was lacking.
Given that now I know you didn’t have to make the units themselves, I can see either can be the ‘main’ barrier, but I don’t think it is important to identify it as a be all and end all?
This is why you don’t quote things without context. And why you should at least discuss the context.
I mean seriously, did you come on here just to debate or actually contribute? The point is you’re purposefully being an a-hole about certain things. And I respectfully asked you to just quote a bit more in the future.
Rather than moving on or further contribute to how it is possible to do this solo, your focus was to give 3 points about some offence you took. It just goes to show what you really care about, which is arguing on the internet with a stranger…
RANT: This is the problem with so many on this forum. Rather than focusing on the topic and content. Perhaps how we can optimize A or B to better hone in on coop, skills, or gameplay. Share that knowledge so everyone can learn. They’ll take the “how dare you talk about my build order”. Like take it easy, if your build order can’t achieve the goal while someone else can, then there’s an issue with it. It isn’t saying you suck as a player. Learn to read…
But you started it. I only said that I don’t think doing it even with partner is very easy. Then you came in, imagined some build order and then started “stating” that my buildorder is bad. (Plus I mentioned correct build time for cyber core (50s, not 60s) but that’s not that important 
)
You quoted me, in fact, misquoted me… Then again, I doubt anything I say at this point will justify. At least I put in the work and showed it, unlike you.
As for “how easy” it is with a partner. Indeed very easy. And here’s why:
- Artanis instantly gives you a field to get you started. So that saves a 25sec time (let’s say with error 20sec), which is still greater than the ~5sec you need. So you make it in time. Easy.
- Vorazun instantly drops D-pylon, providing field and can buy you 20sec Time Stop. Super easy.
- Karax waits a few before pylon that insta-warps. He provides Chrono field, and it was already shown how this is possible with “just Chrono field”. Easy.
Presumably, if you’re going to tackle a challenge, you’re not going to use things that won’t work. So yeah, it is on the easy side WITH AN ALLY.
Of course😖, you’re entitled (as you clearly are) to believe it is “not easy”. As you said, what you feel is easy may not be what I feel is easy. So it’s rather strange that I can’t say it is easy but only you can cuz you’re the standard apparently?
What I can say is that I base how easy something is on the facts around the matter. And the facts are, with an ally, the challenge is straight forward.
- Make Cyber.
- Research champions.
- Make Probius.
- Win.
Not exactly a difficult list to follow. This is nowhere near even the level of micro you need to get UEs out for Abby, which is a basic to Abby play. Let alone any of the hard mutations. But hey, you do you. Cuz I’m good. I know what is possible by testing it, and I know you don’t care.
(Cuz identifying that the first person started must mean everything that has been wrong is wrong about them, right? Is that how you justify being a nuisance after?)
This isn’t about you suck. It is just about finding the nuances of this challenge. Get over your ginormous ego.