Void rays are useles in all MUs, it’s a well-known fact.
Ultralisks can’t be used in ZvP because of Immortals. They’re useless in late-game ZvT beause of a liberators, ghosts and because broodlords are a better late-game unit to deal with Terran ground anyway.
They’re non-existant in ZvZ too.
Void rays can be buffed, but it’s tough to make Ultralisks useful without deleting liberators altogether.
I think, firstly, you can create special upgrade that will make them take no more than 25 damage, like old immortals.
About voidrays, i said my word a long time ago.
Ultralisks are rarely used is because they don’t scale up well into large numbers (a side effect of their collision size), not because of their counters. They very tough to take down even with counters such as Liberators and Immortals.
Maximum damage clamps should never be a thing. They make units unmanageable or broken against certain compositions (as was the case with the Protoss Immortal against mech in the past 2 expansions). Protoss in particular would not be able to fight Ultralisks if Immortals dealt less than half damage to them like you are suggesting.
Make it to air units only then.
Ultralisks are tough and fast enough to run through a Liberator field and still deal with the units on the other side. They do not need such a broken mechanic.
Then this thread’s problem with ultralisk is not a problem.
That would be correct.
The OP blames the counters (without which, Ultralisks would be unmanageable) when the main problem with Ultralisks is their tendency to derp while trying to get around each-other and other allied units.
Ultras are fine but broodlord infestor is just a better end game comp.
Void rays are poor deign for offensive use since it leads to it being to strong or to weak.
Some people before (and a year ago) had proposed to give Ultra’s the ability to let smaller units pass below them similar to Colossus without climb.
I guess that would solve the collision issue but a slight nerff to Ultra would be necessary…
Saying ultras are bad is akin to saying mutas are bad when the meta is opening 15 phoenixes with range. If ultras are still good in a meta where people just mass immortals and templars, then they need a big nerf.
Personally, i would rather see all massive ground units have higher push priority than small units. At least for friendly units (although IMO having them push enemy units too could create interesting strategies). Then Thors, Ultralisks and Archons wouldn’t be derping so much (even though Archons don’t derp as much as Thors and Ultralisks).
If they can break Force Fields, why not make them push units away?
I always wondered why ultras aren’t used in ZvZ
Analyzing zerg’s options agains’t ultras only lurkers could be a decent counter but you need a good amount of them
Mutas can’t kill them before they destroy your base
Brood lords maybe, but I don’t think they kill ultras fast enough either and they are more expensive than ultras
Infestors are useless, neither fungal or neural works on them and infested terrans gets demolished
Hydras are bad, maaaaaybe roaches???..
What am I missing here? Is it simply that high level ZvZ don’t give a window to allow a safe transition to ultras?
I think when you consider the amount of lurkers that tend to get made in the late game hydra lurker viper phase of ZvZ they would absolutely mince ultras. Lurkers in ZvZ are just so insane, i saw a clip where stephno stole 2 lurkers with neural and they killed close to 80 supply of roach hydra (with some fungals for a good measure, might not have been as much as 80 supply but it was a chunky army). I think lurker numbers are just too high by the time ultras are out. I could well be wrong though, just my thoughts
I know a couple of top GM players on EU who make Voids work in PvP and PvZ. Buffing Voids will make rushing them ridiculously strong in cheeses.
Regarding Ultras, Zerg late game is ridiculous as is, we don’t need any more stupid amove unit and that also applies to Voids.
I’m not sold on any claim of Void/Ultralisk being weak.
Lol really? You don’t think the void ray is weak? What a joke.
But they are overpowered VS Terran bio so if Terran goes bio - you got free win when your first ultralisks will come out. Terran can’t change their unit compositions that easily like zerg so bio players can’t quickly adapt to the ultra spawn.
My opinion about void rays is:
If the Terran only makes pure Marine-Marauder-Medivac, sure, why not. Above platinum league though?
on top of that ultras need altleast the carapace upgrade to be decent on the field, since ultracaverns require a hive and caverns still have a buildtime that terran had a big enough window where his 3-3 bio should atleast kill several miningbases or kick some tech via drops
also which terran in the right mind goes pure racks against zerg?
Ultralisks can work in ZvT in the right situations. If you’ve defended well and the Terran hasn’t transitioned from bio you can catch them off guard. They’re kinda like mutalisks in that way, if the Terran sees them coming they’re bad but they don’t you’ll be ok. I’d still MUCH rather have mutalisks improved in this match up.
They’re also ok in ZvZ if you’re playing ling bane muta with melee upgrades. They definitely don’t work in roach wars tho.
But yeah, against Protoss they’re straight up garbage. I don’t even think about making them against Toss.
do 50% damage reduction from spells