LOL, a zerg wins the GSL and we protossers should scream “Nerff Protoss”?
Mr. Raver, you do not give the idea of a troll but this was the most elegant, hilarious troll post that even the Goba the First would have difficulty cooking…
It’s because Dark is a literal god among Protoss scrubs that did not deserve to be there of course. Repeat after me, only Dark can do it! 
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LOL, this theory of …only Maru and Dark can do it (as long as is somebody non-protoss) is becaming a little stale…
I don’t doubt that you have a special talent on not seeing things not aligned with your terran narrative…
Actually in all seriousness, in 2018 it was only Maru and Serral can do it.
2019 is pretty well rounded so far.
Oh please, only time this happens in GSL is only during Super Tournament and now in 2019 S2. Super Tournaments are always Protoss heavy since it’s a different format than regular GSL which doesn’t allow for long preparations. And in S2, it only happened after Ro32, where weaker Protoss have beaten opponents with timing attacks and/or cheese.
Also, I’d not put so much emphasis on “Oh no, half of semis are Protoss” because by that point number of players is so small such statements don’t have worth.
And again, even despite the supposed Protoss “domination” and “overpowerness”, only tournaments Protoss players have managed to win lately (not counting WCS Winter regionals which are more like qualifiers) are GSL Super Tournaments, and that was Classic two times and Stats one time in the past year and a half.
As for supposed WP -1 range nerf… it will most likely do very little, but only because the matchup where it impacts the most, PvZ, would focus even more on Immortal Prism timing attack.
Rogue and Scarlett also took off one win each during IEMs, with Rogue beating Classic and Scarlett beating sOs in the finals. And Dark, Reynor, Innovation and TY were also strong contenders for at least one tournament win in 2018. So it’s not like “only Maru and Serral can do it”, as “winning tournaments” was synonim for “beating Protoss”.
Whenever I play terran and in the early game I’m like — nneeeeeeed. Mooooaaarrr. Minerallllzz. Then you drop two mules and its like OMG i getting so many mineralzzz. It feels like it takes so long to get going though, like CC’s feel like they take forever to build.
So do you think nothing should be done for balance at all? Basically, a wait and see approach and hope that GSL S3 miraculously ends up with better representation? That is certainly a possibility. I think the balance team is more likely to do balance changes before hand though.
If you look at GSL seasons from GSL S1 2018 to GSL S1 2019 and every single WCS of 2018, it literally was only Maru and Serral can do it. Outlier performances were the exception, but certainly not the norm. TY, Innovation, Dark and Reynor being strong contenders is not the same thing as winning.
Btw, friendly advice, if you hit “Reply” on a specific post, whole post will be contained (but hidden) in that reply. Saves the space when compared to quote nesting. ![:wink:](https://d212vo0owly06i.cloudfront.net/en/sc2/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
Anyway… isn’t that how it was for Terran most of the time? Leave specific things alone for a long time and nerf them half year later? 3 rax Reaper, for example? And do I need to again bring an example where PvT was sub-45% for month and a half to two months and the moment Adept Phoenix resurfaces and brings things up to around 50-52% Adept eats a 10 HP nerf? Raver, you can do better than that.
As I said in another thread, there may be a need for changes, but changes to the races (mainly Protoss because Protoss always has to get nerfed) are only part of the whole thing. Player builds, strategies and mistakes they made are the other part of equation, and you can’t deny that Protoss players are in the forefront when it comes to conjuring and refining new builds. Again, how do you explain that Protoss had a massive representation in GSL S2 after getting a fairly large nerf to all Forge upgrades? And S1, where Forge nerf was applied just before playoffs if Liquipedia is to be trusted, had an equal representation of races in the playoffs. And why did many Terrans suddenly stop using double Medivac drop, which if not defended correctly has a massive potential to deal damage, even larger than what warping 10-15 Chargelots could do?
Only race that might really need some help, imo, is Zerg, and that’s because Zerg doesn’t perform well against Terran either, not just Protoss. But weirdly, it is mostly Terrans that advocate for Protoss nerfs.
Meanwhile TvP is still evolving; we’ve recently started to see both Battle Mech and standard Mech on the pro scene (mostly piloted by Gumiho, but Maru and Inno also aren’t strangers to it), Ravens and Battlecruisers are also getting more usage. It’s too early to tell if there’s any need to intervene there, and even if it is, it would probably be enough to simply slow down Protoss a little rather than nerfing a unit(s).
Sure, go ahead and nerf Protoss any way you want, what will most likely happen is that even more focus will be put in cheeses and powerful timing attacks, and the circle will continue. I’m just tired of the long-lasting and obvious double standard between Terran and non-Terran when it comes to changing the game, and the constant belittling of Protoss players both on ladder and on the pro scene.
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I know that, but I like to quote for personal preference. But I will likely use the standard reply when there are too many nested quotes. I should mention that I think warp prisms should be nerfed from a design standpoint because I think the range is too good now. If balance is fine as you claim it is then I am fine with a compensatory Protoss buff that will help Protoss against Zerg specifically where they struggle more.
I also think TJ should be put behind an upgrade with a compensatory buff of ATA damage back to 6 from 5. Anyways, these are just examples of how to improve the game design wise rather than balance. Regardless, I will be more interested in debating proposed balance changes by the balance team when they come. Like I told others, debating hypotheticals that may never happen or not in the way expected is a waste of the time.
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[TheGoatPuncher]
But it’s not about the frickin lasers in of themselves. They are merely the symbolic representation of the systemic oppression of the Terran player by the neosteel boots of the balance patch, as exemplified by the removal of the widow mine’s permacloak, Maru’s inability to win a fifth consecutive GSL season and the continued, deeply unfair existence of the Protoss player.
To you and me, then, they might be mere “frickin’ lasers” but to the Terran it is bigger. It is nothing less, than a direct attack on their very souls.
P.S. Why don’t have in this forums posters like this?
We can use some help here…
It’s the reinforcement principle. It can cause obsessive thoughts and people with OCD, paranoia, etc are good examples. Whether or not XYZ is true is irrelevant, they’ve conditioned their brain to believe it from repetitive rituals. Doing these rituals is enough to reinforce their belief. People with germophobia will repeatedly wash their hands even though it does them no good and even causes issues to their skin, but the mere Act of doing the hand-washing ritual is enough to reinforce the behavior in their brain regardless of whether the ritual is correct or beneficial. The key to overcoming it is to simply stop the ritual. These whiners have conditioned themselves into believing paranoid theories that the boogeyman is out to get their winrate and they’ve done this through repeated rituals of balance whine.
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When Drunkenboi can go like 20 minutes vs. Neeb on Thunderbird when boi proxies a factory thats found and just making bio and starport units the whole game…Neeb made mistakes though and one game doesnt mean anything, and Future almost beat Neeby neeb as well. Runbys, warp-ins, basically the same thing, can be done by either player
Honestly, and I’m saying this as a zerg player, I think TvZ favors zerg pretty heavily right now. Last large balance patch I read and thought ‘Terran’s are going to have a rough time.’ I think terran could use an economy boost, and it would help balance it out a little bit. It’s not as bad as TvP, but I just think terran is disadvantaged in every matchup right now.
Poor terrans, what a coincidence: right after huge nerffs were administered to both Protoss and Zergs…
Maybe we must begin the game with 6 Drones/Probes and terrans with 18 SCV?
Not a tvp expect here, but would something like allowing orbitals to make 2 scvs at a time (and then perhaps nerfing mule mining to compensate) be a step in the right direction. Obviously something like that would require testing and maybe even require an upgrade to push it back later in the game. But is that the issue zerg can spam drones with good injects and protoss can chrono out probes. So is it just a case of mules don’t actually make up the difference?
I already posted that economy is one of the balance issues that need to be fixed. I just want an equal playing field. toss shouldn’t be able to be way ahead in economy and bases yet can have the same number of units as Terran. and they are better units at that. thats not balanced. however, they say its balanced asymmetrically. which is flawed all in itself
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Ever tried MULEs?
20 char
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With all this suggestions about economy… Do we actually have data abour minerals/min in TvP?
That’s right. MULEs are not intended to make up the difference either. Their purpose is to compensate for an SCV taken off the mineral line in order to build structures or make repairs.
There is a sacrifice using MULEs though; they take away the energy that the Terran needs in order to also have comparable detection (scans). Terran doesn’t have the readily-accessible detector units that P and Z does so scans are really necessary. Dropping a MULE instead of saving for a scan can cause the Terran to lose.
Chronoboost needs to change, honestly.
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So what you’re saying is that if Terran doesn’t scout that he needs detection and is being greedy, he’s getting punished? This is true for all three races.
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