TvP is a complete joke

General Discussion
1

I dont care how many pro terrans are winning tournaments. This matchup is virtually impossible. Every single protoss player can choose multiple tech routes and take a 3rd nexus before you can even accumulate an army that can move across the map. 1 battery overcharge can allow protoss to endlessly defend, I dont even understand how this is possible. How can you possibly have INVINCIBLE UNITS under any circumstance and call it RTS.

This game is absolutely disgusting. Blizzard is the most clueless gaming company out there, out right refusing to listen to the players.

13 Likes
2

If top 10 Terrans can beat Top 10 Protoss then it’s not impossible, you’re just doing something wrong.

7 Likes
3

People in platinum have no idea how to even abuse how broken protoss is. Just go away. Battery overchage doesn’t give a damn what build people use, its flat out the most broken thing in RTS.

5 Likes
4

Yep, i lost 15 probes to wm drop early and still managed to get 4 nexus, with help of faking 2 base chargelot all in at start, but lost still 15 probes and he scouted me after that, after some time. Then i beaten him with mass gateway units only and later i transitioned into colossi - 4 archons and just ran around in circle until he made 1 mistake, or he didn’t resiege liberators perfectly 20 times in a row and was about 0,3 s late one time. It was 5400 terran and my offrace was only 4700 at that time and i was already consistently beating 5300 terrans…

First time i offraced protoss after 30 games i got from rank 50 to rank 15, before mmr split, highest rank i achieved at that time. And beaten 140 rank gm zerg abusing ruptors and tp 6 times back, after i used all purification novas.

I one time as terran cornered skillfully whole protoss army with liberators nop doesn’t matter - skillcall. You can save thousands of gas, even if you are out of position…

I can’t tell difference between 4600 tos and 5600 tos. I was beating last year dozens of 5600 mmr toses and yet i was losing some games to 4600 and i couldn’t tell any difference…

Protoss gets fully saturated nexus, before your third even finished. And is ahead in unit count from that, in tech/upgrades, yet pressuring you with blink. You go 4 base gasless, only 1 gas on natural and mass gateway units (pinnacle of skill), than strom drop and transition to 3 colossi 4 archon and you run around in circle and force resiege each time you move. So terran can’t go attack.

If he drops you have recall and warpins… If you drops too much you kill him on his side…

Also you go zealot runbys and one waprism can instantly end the game, warprism is too much of a threat, terran can’t even move out and instant warpin into his base… Yet you can snipe pf with dts instantly and if you are skillled protoss and trade it won’t even get until lib/ghost.

You have every advantage in the game playing protoss, if you can’t win you should uninstall right now!

Beating with my protoss offraces gm from all races and even 5400 mmr zerg 2 times gm rank 120, 140. While with terran 10 years practice, i can’t win sh it… I switched to tos, all of the sudden i am good at the game :smiley:

Protoss can only lose, if he does some stupid all in, or he doesn’t trade at all…

Beating gms feels easier with protoss, than playing against 4600 protoss as 5k terran…

OMG common, that’s dumbest thing i ever heard…

You realize, that there are no top tier protosses in the first place?! These terrans have much higher elo.

Also top tier pro play balance, is irrelevant to likely 99.999% of population.

Common man…

Game is balanced around top 3 koreans and unplayable for rest of 99.999% population. Protoss has highest gm representation since 11/28/2018 constantly !!!

https://www.rankedftw.com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&l=6
4 Likes
5

You realize you can run away and attack something else in another base, right?

The protoss can’t do everything he wants to do with the Nexus, and eventually he’ll run out of energy.

Post some replays, and let’s see what you are doing wrong. I’m sure I can offer some help if I see your replays and look at what both players are doing right or wrong at your league.

You stop proxy voids or proxy oracle by just getting stim and killing his proxy before he gets critical mass.

You stop Colossi by first of all harassing the P to death before the Colossi death ball is made in the first place.

You should be attacking the Templar Archives to cancel storm research, or attackign the robotics/support bay to delay colossi or delay disruptors (whatever the P is making there).

Lke just because medivacs aren’t “free kills” vs probes any more, doesn’t mean there aren’t weaknesses to attack fo rthe Protoss.

1 Like
6

Sb, warpin, tp, name it. You realize protoss can defend 3 bases, if plays properly. Smart tos will sit back and defend against drops with blink, or like phoenix etc. And than if you defend drops, or 2 base all in, you can do whatever you want from that point in the game!

7

lol. Look, maybe you are just a “natural” protoss player and need to permanently shift to playing protoss.

It looks to me like you are playing protoss pretty well, from your description, because most pros just a-move with Protoss and storm a few times to collect wins, but you are actually out-positioning the Terran to win.

So guess what? Playing Terran made you into a better Protoss player.

Play Protoss and just don’t worry about it. You sound like a better P player anyway.

8

Dude now i am starting to think you are trolling whole time. Or you just see what you want. You ignore all facts i presented to you, or anything i say and reapeat everything from your side, how you think it is. It was one side-discussion from start…

No i am not. I played protoss couple times in HOTS and i didn’t have any higher success than with Terran! I also know balance of TvP in HOTS, so i have reference point. Matchup didn’t used to be like this at all…

Yeah and also i practiced terran 10 years and was 5300 mmr with terran, beaten even 6k players. And have like 10 k games with Terran. Do you think, that after like couple hundreds of protoss games, i got so much better LMAO…

OMG i don’t even…

1 Like
9

My god you’re really showing your complete ignorance every time you post an essay. The more words you use the more it shows how little you know. OF course you can just run away when they overchage. Guess what?? Protoss warps in units to defend and then your timing attack is crushed all while protoss has 3 bases and it out teching you.

Just stop defending how broken the race is, you dont even know what you’re doing.

10

Evidently they can’t “do whatever they want” otherwise the Pro terrans wouldn’t win games.

I actually agree with you though, I dislike invincibility gimmicks in RTS, and I dislike “free units” in RTS, so I hate the Swarm Host and the MULE, and I hate the notion of incincibility shields for any race. So while I dislike Invincibility shields in RTS, I still play Pally in Warcraft 3, because…he’s invincible and he wrecks undead, so why wouldn’t you play pally?

So whatever.

Have you ever heard of “incompleteness theorem”?

A =/= B =/= C

It’s impossible for two things that are different to be “equal” and therefore asymmetric races CANNOT be 100% balanced in RTS, under any circumstances. The best you can do is balance it based on win percentage of Grand Master League and tell anybody in lower leagues “you could always play better.”

1 Like
11

HE has nerve damage, so go easy on him, but yeah. I gave him facts he didn’t even respond to it. And started talking about his view on matter… If he is not trolling whole time :smiley:

12

I’m not letting you off that easily, post yoru replays of losses you think you “should have won due to imbalance you lost”.

Post those replays, so everybody can see what you did wrong, and if you’re honest other player’s insights can help you improve.

13

Um, so what, MAYBE YOU ARE JUST A NATURAL PROTOSS PLAYER.

My God. I beat one Professional Korean in SC: BW in 2001, as Zerg, before I even really knew what “professional StarCraft” really was and before I got sick (I got sick in 2002). I don’t know what my APM was back then, before I got sick, but I know I could STOMP 400APM Protoss players as my 2001 Zerg, because I know how fast my cousin played Protoss and my cousin was about as good in 2001 as G5 was in 2006.

In 2006, I beat THREE professional StarCraft players on 60 to 120 APM as Protoss in BW…and it was G5’s idea for me to play Protoss instead of Terran or Zerg, and I turned around and beat him, TadStryker, and Gretorp in 1vs1 matches. At the time, I had been trying to play Terran, and just didn’t have the APM for it, even though I had already beaten Gretorp several times at that stage, but G5 told me to play Protoss because it uses less apm (that coming from a 450 APM broodwar Protoss).

Maybe you really are just better with Protoss than Terran. There’s nothing to be ashamed of, 4You was better with Zerg than Terran in Broodwar, so he played the wrong race for several years before he figured out he was better with Zerg. I beat his terran 3 consecutive times, After he beat me about 500 times in a row, I eventually figured out how to counter his tanks push…which I previously thought was “impossible to stop”.

It’s not impossible, youre just doing something wrong as terran.

Anyway, if I were you, if you think one race is “OP” then change to that race and win the world championship.

Can’t win the championship anyway? Then hush up complaining, you’re obviously not good enough.

And I have career wins over Masters players in SC2, but I admit it’s probably not “top masters” players, more lik ebottom or mddile masters that I’ve beaten, but my league ranking is top platinum to 50 diamond because…being critically ill I can’t hit buttons fast enough and think clearly enough in-game to beat a 99th percentile player. I can’t expect the game to be designed for a medically disabled player to beat a healthy player though, so I don’t complain about it.

And if you must know, my nuerological illness DOES effect my intelligence. before I got sick I had a 187I.Q. on the MENSA test. After I got sick, my I.Q. temporarily fell all the way down to 134. after I lost ~45 pounds and partially reversed some of the medical problems I had, my I.Q. has since risen back to 145, but it looks like I’ve permanently lost ~40 points, or 3 standard deviations, off my I.Q.

So yes, that absolutely WRECKED my ability to concentrate in-game. Since I got sick, I cannot hit the buttons fast enough, can’t remember build orders and counters at real-time speed in-game, and flat out forget to even look at the minimap half the time.

Before I got sick, I beat everyone as Zerg in Brodowar by simply out-macroing them and running right over them.

After I got sick, I couldn’t play above 2 bases as Zerg, which just isnt’ going to cut it against A+ Terrans and A+ Protoss.

So YES, I admit my illness has in fact compromised my intelligence, and I realize by saying that I’m opening myself up for jokes and crap like that, but whatever. I was literally driven hafl-mad by the pain from the nerve damage and have since had to go on anti-psychotics on top of pain medicine, because the BRAIN DAMAGE is driving me insane.

So you tell me just what I’m supposed to do with myself, because Broodwar is one of the few thingsn I’ve ever been good at, and I can’t play it any more.

I’m currently on full medical disability from the nerve damage, and can’t keep aeven a part-time job to pay my bills, and it’s EMBARRASSING because I didn’t ask for this, and the nerve damage has caused me to have schizoaffective disorder, which pretty much means it’s IMPSSIBLE for me to improve myself in life, and impossible to keep a job.

In 2001 I looked forward to coming home from work and wrecking some “gosus” at StarCraft.

Every since 2002, I can’t even keep a job, and since 2011 or so, I can’t play my favorite video game competitively any more.

So have your fun, make some jokes, and call me a liar some more. I don’t care dude.

I previously didn’t have schizophrenia symptoms, I’m not sure when that started, but in hind sight it must have started around 2004, but I wasn’t diagnosed as “bipoloar” until 2012, and they changed the diagnoses to “schizoaffective” 2 months ago, but before 2004 I never experienced wird dreams, and I never experienced hallucinations. by 2009 I was experiencing hallucinations.

I’ve never done drugs, and don’t smoke, and don’t drink alcohol, and don’t absue prescription medicine either.

You ,now what caused that?

Undiagnosed Type II diabetes…a very common medical problem that’s grown into an epidemic of people eating the wrong food and dying early because of it.

14

Hahaha, if you are still here anyone - you have to see this: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft2/comments/k3h7m3/terran_commercial_thinking_of_playing_terran_go/

15

What difference does it make? You main one race and whine about losing a matchup that’s T favored at the highest skill level.

Play Protoss if you think Protoss is OP. What else is there to say?

You still haven’t done what I told you, post your replays of losses you think are “unfair” and we can all tell you what you did wrong.

You still havent’ tried my PvT strategy or ZvT or ZvP strategy from Broodwar either, otherwise with your APM you’d already be Code S by now in Broodwar. You can reach Code S in one day if you can play 200 to 300 APM.

If you think I’m lying, try me, what have you got to lose? Play Broodwar for a few hours per day, and play Broodwar all day THIS SATURDAY, and use the strategies I mentioned in other threads, and if you have at least 120 APM, you should be Code S by the end of next Saturday, because I told you how I beat Code S players on much lower APM than you have.

And THAT will prove that I’m not a liar.

Oops, I don’t know exactly why that happens, but I accidently replied to my own post, when I meant to reply to someone else. I’ll try to fix it I guess, but don’t know how to fix that.

16

Yeah at this point it is safe to say you are just trolling :joy: :joy: :joy: LMAO It seems like you ignore everything i say. But if you read, you would know that i played some protoss in HOTS and didn’t have any higher success than wiht terran. Because in HOTS protoss took actually skill…

17

I played Protoss in HotS full time and It does take skill, but people don’t recognize thigns like unit composition as “skill”.

Avillo thinks Terran is supposed to get a free win vs protoss because they trained one banshee, so he whined that Pylon Overcharge made it too easy for Protoss to defend banshees, but without pylon oversharge protoss COULD NOT defend banshees, as evidenced by me having like 100 probe kills in a 2vs2 Masters game I won one time.

So they have to give protoss some kind of defense gimmick to protect them from terran harass, and terran needs multiple harass options against Zerg, so those units need to be that way against zerg, so balancing TvZ, because of game design, necessarily effects TvP.

Now if Blizzard had done what I suggested on Pre-ALpha, which is balance each race match-up separately, then give each unit bonuses or panelies against each other race or even each other unit, that would always be 100% “balanceable”.

But blizzard claimed that would be “too complicated for noobs to understand.”

lol. AoE III is sort of like what I suggested, almost, and it’s not too complicated to understand, in spite of having 5 tech tiers.

So I think Blizzad has just been lazy on balance design to begin with.

But they aren’t going to rebalance the game because a couple Masters or low GM players whine about balance. If all the “Randoms” in GM say something is imbalanced, Blizzard might take their word for it, or if Protoss players admit their own race is imbalanced, blizzard might take that word for it, because believe it or not, Korean Pros usually admit when something is overpowered about their own race. Iv’e seen them make videos doing that before.

Like I said, just play Protoss, you evidently aren’t good enough to play Terran.

HOWEVER, I am going to AGREE WITH YOU that an Invincibility shield does not belong in any RTS, and honestly doesn’t belong in an RPG either, except maybe on “God-like difficulty” where you make the boss enemies ten times harder than core rules or something like that.

18

By composition you mean only gateway units and f2 a move and beating 5400 terran ? I don’t even micro it and literally f2 amove, then i macro (meanwhile terran is microing against that across whole map) i look at my army and i won…

19

Sounds like he didn’t successfully harass you enough.

But that was actually that way in WoL. I remember InControl famously a-moving his army, in GM vs GM, and then getting up and getting something to drink near the end of a PvZ game, and his army just automatically killed the entire zerg army.

20

Yeah he only killed 15 probes at start, but ok…