Win rates for the last two years?
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Gumiho won a GSL back when Terran was, arguably, a little OP (though, actually, the win rates were about even, only favoring Terran in PVT).
Balance patch? Eviscerate the Raven, Eviscerate the widow mine, buff Zealots and Stalkers to unimaginable heights, buff chrono until I think the earliest an Oracle could be in your base was 2:15.
By comparison, Zerg has been dominating in both PVZ and TVZ for two yearsā¦ What balance patch did we receive? Substantial nerf to Infestor (but nothing even close to the genocide that was the Raven), removal of an ongoing bug for years that benefited Zerg, then buffs to Lurker, nerfs to Liberator, nerfs to Tempestsā¦
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You did nothing of the sort. Letās start from the top shall we. Youāve seen the winrates Iāve written above. Why do you think there exists such a consistent bias in favor of Zerg for the last 3 years in both matchups?
Nerf Queens and the issue gets solved. They donāt need a massive nerf but they do need enough of one where Zerg canāt get their 3rd at 2 minutes and have 6+ Queens to fend off any attempt at punishing their greed. -1 armor or -30 health would probably be enough.
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LMAO DaLiar and RabiDunce are FAST to troll the forums. They are SERIOUSLY triggered by ANY talk of Zerg imbalance. I think they really are desperate to believe that they are far better at the game than they really are. If youāve ever watched WinterSC, he talks about Zerg players getting to Platinum by accident, basically failing up. Zerg players donāt learn anything about the game until they are in Masters.
Regardless, I think some of the problem is that Zerg doesnāt have to make any hard Supply economy decisions. Itās not that they can easily tech switch, itās that they can mass so many of any units, ground and air, that it doesnāt matter what the Terran or Protoss have chosen to do. If they go air, you just mass Corruptors and Vipers and win, and you always have your Infestor hit squad to swing the supply gap even further in your favor.
If they go ground, you just go Brood Lords (because you had the Corruptors anyway), and couple that up with your extremely cheap Zerglings/Cracklings and again use your Infestors, which youāre going to have anyway, to swing the Supply gap even further in your favor.
And if nothing goes your way, you can remax faster by far than either Terran or Protoss can. If you complain about Zerg, however, youāre just a āwhinerā or a ānoobāā¦
Meanwhile:
āI think Zerg needs to be nerfed, and not just because I won this championship.ā - Rogue
āI won because balance really favors Zerg.ā - Rogue
āI think ZvT and ZvP late game, I would say if Zerg plays perfect, then Zerg should always win late-game pretty muchā¦ā - Serral
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are you talking about ladderstats or tournament stats? ladderstats mean nothing, since literally everyone over 6k has stats above 60% in every muā¦
and that was the case for zerg too. zerg never won a gsl in lotv. when they finally did, everyone freaked out lolā¦
problem is, people whined about literally every unit. so did you expect, that blizz would nerf every zerg unit, just because guys like you say so? good thing is, that blizz has more knowledge than you think you have. sh + nydus was a little op and infestor was a little op and guess what - both got nerfed. so wheres the point in still whining? ah, because suddenly other units are op, like the corruptor.
i can reach diamond with terran without even knowing any buildorders. does that proof something? no? but if some viewbotter like winter bashing platinum noobs, it has to mean something, right? xD
thats btw the reason, why i dont even try to explain to you anymore, why youre so wrong. you just act like the whole discussion never happened. i could talk to a wall, it would be more productive than to talk to you.
i really wonder, how the zerg meta should look like in your opinion. tell me, how a balanced zvt would look like to you. if you go bio into mass bc + vikings, what is the zerg supposed to do? since corruptor and viper is completely op and should be nerfed into the ground, what exactly should a zerg do in that situation?
ok, the 20001st time - nope, not meanwhile. quotes from mid 2019, nerfs happened since then - quotes are meaningless. but yeah, another point you hesitate to understand.
Tournament stats:
aligulac. com/misc/balance/
Right. Thatās what we call ācherry picking data points.ā
Someone winning a specific tournament (especially one where Serral and Reynor both donāt play) is a brain dead argument. Itās called anecdotal and it always annoys me when Zerg players allow themselves to be stupid enough to use that as a talking point (not that you, specifically did, mind you).
They did for Terranā¦ But no they should not. They didnāt need to nerf libs, Tempests, or buff lurkers particularly.
The real issue here still comes down to casters. Zerg isnāt actually OP. Zerg casters are OP. All casters are OP, but Zergās in particular are the strongest and have been for a good, long while.
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Dude, Iām done arguing with the snowflake DaLiar. Dude is going to call you a noob, or a whiner, orā¦ when that fails, heās just going to accuse you of demanding that every Zerg unit gets nerfed. Heās like RabiDroneās little brother or something. He says that Zerg is FINE now because of one round of nerfsā¦ that didnāt even address the worst offenders.
Neural Parasite, Parasitic Bomb, Abduct, and, in my opinion, Corruptors. Heās fine with 20 Supply of units being able to totally mitigate Protoss and Terran Air armies. He thinks that the Infested Terrans was the only problemā¦ It really wasnāt, though, yes, the Infested Terrans AAM were ridiculous, and indicative of a Bananalance Team completely flailing in the dark.
They didnāt even get that there was a problem with Zerg until both Rogue and Serral came out and said Zerg was basically unbeatable. I donāt have high hopes for balance in this game, which will continue to hurt interest in eSports. Who wants to watch eSports when one of the premier games is so obviously and incompetently imbalanced.
Get a raven, that way you can reveal the problem.
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zerg having arguably the best scouting, āespeciallyā in the early game.
Coupled with their ability to either drone up to 70 workers on 4 bases at 5:30-6:00 mins if they dont feel threatened. or they scout an aggressive opponent and can begin preparing 2 or 3 minutes prior to the attack actually hitting.
zergs early/mid game losses are attributed to either being to greedy
and not having enough units, or overreacting and putting themselves behind.
obviously there is a sweet spot between droning and army,
but they have figured it outā¦
3rr could be deflected by a 15 gas 15 pool but it was a huge gamble because it nukes your economy vs standard terran. That was the problem. 3rr was so potent that you had to counter it, and if you did youād still only came out even, and if the terran did something else you were tremendously screwed. Terranās tech and upgrade advantage is difficult to deal with in a normal game, but when they are ahead from square 1 itās impossible.
Hard counter 3rr.
Terran goes standard -> you lose.
Terran goes 3rr -> you are equal.
Play standard.
Terran goes 3rr -> you die.
Terran goes standard -> you are equal.
You die or are equal no matter what you choose. Thatās not how balance works. Every build needs risk and for Terran there was none no matter what he choose. There needs to be a third option which gives terran an equal number of āterran diesā outcomes.
Last period TvZ was 600 games. If Reynor and Serral went 15-0 against Terran, which is very possible, then that alone would make TvZ 45%. 2 players can easily influence the winrates.
lol, you realize Zerg trails Protoss in economy for roughly the first 5 minutes of a game?? People like you who donāt know anything about the match up should stop making balance suggestions.
Irrelevant. Itās not the economy thatās causing issues, itās the fast 3 bases pumping queens which protects the greed.
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Do you actually have a working brain? Or maybe you just missed this:
And this:
I stopped posting on these forums because each time these same zerg players come to flood my posts with 0 arguments and just hate by rejecting any proposal.
They spend their lives defending the zerg race on each post, crying, hoping that blizzard wonāt get on their nerfs.
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You are the guy who comes here crying that hellbats are not used at all and need a buff. When I provide you evidence that it is not so, you call my links malware, you keep pulling the league card and are completely obtuse.
You keep calling banelings OP because 2 of them can kill a bunch of marines and in your opinion it is unfair, despite the fact that they have been balanced like this since forever. You listen to nobody, cos you know it better.
Then you cry about vipers like they would be the cure-to-all, not even considering that it is your subjective opinion & once again nonsense.
I ignored the rest of your threads, if there were any.
But it is YOU who is butthurt here, cos these damn zergs, they just come and point out your flawed logic. Good you have your supporty-QQ-bois around, you can tap each otherās shoulder and cry together how you hate zerg.
Some players, even tho I consider them a bit over the top, have a point many times (e.g. Playa). You, firstfulOfZen (or whatever that new guy is called) and other constant whiners are just a joke.
PS: And yes, I think infestors deserved a nerf, I think nydus deserved a nerf and I think SH is a BS unit. And so do a lot of other Zerg players.
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By now, there were whine threads about literally every zerg unit. Before you were swarming the forum with your whine, there were threads about sh, nydus, creep, queen, broods, infestor, lurker, mutas, ravager, hydras, cracklings, banelings roaches and ultras. Maybe im forgetting something, but all this comes to mind, when i recall all whine threads. So yes, people here where whining about literally EVERY unit zerg has.
Wrong. I say, that nerfs just happened and that we have to see, how the meta shifts in the next 1-2 momths, because it need time for the meta to settle. Maybe you should work on your reading skills.
Ok im curious. Wouldnt you call this paragraph whine? If not, could you give me your definition of whine, because it seems you have a different one, if thats not whining.
What, infested terrans had an anti armor missle?
Heres your problem - they didnt say this.
I hate it too, that the best players win the tournaments. Its totaly unfair! Blizz should nerf the winning race after each tournament, so that every race is op and so that even the little 5k pleb is able to win against serral, because he should be rewarded for choosing terran!
Btw you know how guys in here mocked about the wesg qualifier? Was it maybe even you, who did a thread because of it? Duno, but sounds reasonable. Yesterday, even heromarine said on stream, that its not surprising at all, that until now, only two terrans qualified, because in every country, there were better non terrans, so it was expected. Only exception was france.
Protoss has way more workers than Zerg in the early game and literally can make one adept and be safe. This is probably one of the most bonehead posts Iāve seen here. Plat league knowledge on display in full force.