The DPS of a tempest air to ground attack is 17 dps. Keep in mind this is a siege unit that costs 250/175 and 5 supply, has no abilities, and specifically requires a 300/200 building to unlock.
To put that into reference, lets compare the damage output of a tempest vs a zero armor target like a supply depot or something.
-A stimmed marine does 14.7 DPS. In essence a single 50 mineral marine is about as lethal to supply depots as tempests.
-A single adrenal gland zergling does 14.3 DPS, again about as lethal as a tempest. Two normal zerglings however would do more damage than a tempest.
-A queen does 11.2 DPS in its ground to ground attack
-A single broodling (the free things that spawn from dead zerg buildings; 6 of them spawn) does 8.7 DPS. So 2 of them would do more damage to a supply depot than tempest.
-A SCV/probe/drone does 4.6 DPS (3 SCVs would kill a supply depot as fast as a tempest would)
Let’s compare a tempest to other siege/artillery units in the game:
-Siege tank vs a supply depot is 44 DPS (and lets not forget that that 44 also is splash)
-SH Locust: 44 DPS (for 2 locusts)
-Liberators 65.8 DPS
-The broodlord is difficult to calculate but is somewhere between 38-40 DPS depending on what happens with the broodlings
To summarize a tempest reflects a 250/175 cost at 5 supply cost for 17 DPS. Its actually worse vs most air units in the game, doing only 12 DPS vs anything other than battlecruisers, carriers, and broodlords. When that tempest is shooting at your ground units or your vikings or your buildings, you should remember its doing less or similar damage than a single marine. This to me is a bloody joke.
To add insult to injury this joke attacking each 2.something seconds has a huge DPS-loss due to overkill.
The real DPS of the joke is much lower than the one you demonstrated.
so a siege unit thats actually mobile,air,has more range,doesnt have to be sieged should also have the highest dps cause why not?
yea,its a bit biased from you,only listing weaknesses
tempest work well against units they are designed to kill,they are also great for poking,kiting the opponents army
if you are jumped on instantly(your mistake) you will probably lose a main fight,but if you can run away and deal damage for some time and whittle down your opponent then tempests are great value
Let’s see if we can have a bit of a civil talk about this.
The issue with Tempest is that it is overly specialized for something with that much cost in resources and supply and is largely useless outside of that. Corruptors and Vikings have similar issues, but both cost far less resources and build faster so they can be built reactively to the threat.
Vs Terran: They do bonus against BC, but BCs won’t really fight you. They can clear Libs from afar, but aren’t effective at doing so. If you get enough tempests to one volley, you won’t have enough ground presence to prevent a dive.
Vs Zerg: They counter BL, but are countered by Corruptor, the precursor to BL. This is ignoring the fact that Zerg doesn’t allow Protoss to get into Airtoss late game by choking them in the mid game with cheaper units that make fast.
Vs Toss: Airtoss is a joke, so we don’t need to talk about it.
So outside of really gimmicky ladder stuff like proxy tempests with a battery fortress, the most practical use it has in a game is to break liberator siege lines, whose issue I addressed above.
In concept, the whole “doing mediocre to bad damage from 10 range to ground” is fine, but when you account for supply and resource cost that 's when it’s really inefficient, and it’s hard to see this until you actually play with the unit yourself.
Let’s be civilized here. I fully understand the difference between burst damage and DPS. However, it’s hard to discuss units in comparison just looking at burst damage.
The burst damage of a tank is around 75. The DPS of a tank is around 44 like I stated (and this is without accounting for splash). The burst damage of a marine or carrier is nothing. The actual DPS of these units is actually quite good. If you want to compare the burst damage of a tempest to a tank (the closest unit with the same rate of fire), again its awful.
I realize fully that tempests can fly, can shoot and move (though “move” is a bit of an overstatement. The movement speed i think is 2.62, making them easily one of the slowest units in the game), can poke, etc. However the fact of the matter is this 5 supply, tier three unit does less damage per second when firing than things like one marine, two zerglings, etc particularly against things it should be good vs. It’s on the same tier as the mothership and carrier and requires a 300/200 building to unlock and its best ability/trait is that it can poke and kite a bit?
Even more so when you compare it to other artillery units its not even close. Yes, SH and siege tanks are slightly different in their mechanics (they don’t fly, they don’t shoot air) but their roles are basically the same. Tempests can fly and stay out of trouble. Siege tanks have 13 range and can stay out of trouble. SH can launch their shells from I think its 20 range or something like and then walk away and stay out of trouble. They are all siege units that are relatively similar. However, the highest cost unit is by far the worst (the cost of a SH is 100/75 at 3 supply, the cost of a tank is 150/150 at 3 supply, the cost of a tempest if 250/175 at 5 supply more than double the cost of a swarm host!). Protoss would gladly trade tempests for any of these units. Zerg give us SH and protoss will give you tempests? Even trade right? The units have about the same utility to their respective armies right? Terran give us tanks and we’ll give you tempests? That seems fair! I think to me that’s actually the best way to judge balance actually. Just ask if the other race would like to trade similar role units (ie lings and zealots, corruptors and vikings, ghosts and high templar, carriers and battlecruisers, etc. Similar role units). If the answer is maybe or possibly, then the unit is probably balanced. If the answer is overwhelming yes or no, then the unit is probably not balanced.
I think Parting said it best. When asked why he didn’t go tempests vs libs in a match vs Byun, in a very animated fashion he said something alongst the lines of “If you’re winning with tempests, you would have won without them anyway. If you’re losing, tempests won’t bring you back”. It’s a joke unit. An absolute joke/meme unit currently.
Everybody understands the difference, but the burst-damage in the context of units that are autohealing without one-shoting them is not burst-damage anymore.
Unless you will ask protoss players to focus-fire individual Marine/Marauders?
Real burst-damage is DT/Nuke/Nova/Bane/Lib, the rest is a cynical joke.
It’s enough to know that DPS/Supply of a Drone is higher than Tempest.
Enough said…
OP has a fairy strong point. Just trying to counter him with BS will only make his opponents look stupid (like the poster that gave you a Like for your BS).
NOPE!!! STOP trying to buff TOSS AIR!!! It ruins every aspect of strategy game. Couple Tempest can 1 shot plenty of units from insane range, they are mobile, they are flyer, and they are Air/Ground shooter! How many Zerg unit have this privilege? How many Terran units? STOP WHINING about AIR!!!
Compared to most other siege units, the Tempest is very mobile (within the top 3, arguably only out-classed by upgraded Lurkers and Colossus in Warp Prisms). That particular claim is absolutely true.
Cyclones must enter 7 range too lock-on and must maintain vision on the target at all times in order to use the leash range (which can be difficult with the terrain on most maps).
In practice this ensures that Cyclones get picked off or denied fairly often.
Thors are grounded and significantly slower than Tempests. This allows them to be balanced with a lot more DPS (particularly on their 7/medium-ranged ground attack).
BC only have 6 range and a much slower speed, so they can be balanced with higher DPS and durability in combat.
Battlecruisers are also much slower except for the Teleport (which has a long cooldown and a sufficient delay for most units to clear the area before the jump actually finishes).
No it is not. The Tempest is significantly more mobile than Thors and Battlecruisers; whereas Cyclones don’t have as much range (due to the 7 range lock-on requirement and ease of denial).
…which could be used to run from them considering that both Thors and to a lesser extent BC slaughter Tempests.
Usually running from BC ends badly (due to TJ) which brings back the Mothership in play for extra Recalls (on top of 5-Supply junk you have to add a 8 Supply junk just to stay alive…).
There is a reason on why Protoss counter Mass-Thors with Mass-Disruptors.
Tempest range against ground is 10, speed is 3.15 (un-upgraded Zealot speed). That is hardly maneuverable. Making them maneuverable is fine; making them do more damage against non-massive is fine; making them cheaper in resources and/or supply is also fine. Their current iteration is highly unappealing, which is why they are one of the units that show up the least in a pro game (even less than Carriers, which is used as a closer every now and then, and Void Rays, which is already rare to begin with).
Yes, and it (for it cost and supply) lacks Mobility, Durability and Damage. Range is nothing to be excited also but let’s agree that Tempest has Range (used to have 15/15 but those days are long gone).
My point is that Tempests can’t fight without support (like phoenixes) because they are dead the moment they separate from the DeathBall, so Mobility beyond 2.62 (Carrier/Mothership) is wasted on a unit like Tempest.
So, remove the “mobility” and bring the old slow-Tempest back and give DPS as compensation.
Lord sake.