But ma broodwar foreign terran skills
Quoted for posterity and to put on my bulletin board. Just like “remember the Alamo” became a saying, cause a historic thing that should be remembered, people will likewise remember this.
“Remember when that random person on a forum said that one thing to Playa, but then Playa did the thing in spite of the naysayer? Legendary thing. Never forget the thing that occured.” - Everyone except due that got pwned.
1 Like
Batz kid,
You should know by now that basically anything you say is considered void of any meaning, importance and sense by the majority of the forum due to your countless trolling posts. If anything, the sole fact that you try to undermine what he’s saying only reinforces the plausibility that he might have found a new interesting way to play terran. I for once am looking forward how his experiment carries out.
2 Likes
Spoiler alert. You can make any strategy work so long as you don’t care about MMR. He’s doing what he thinks is OP from a protoss perspective. Avilo did the same thing when he offraced eg lurker viper in 2017 against terran when it wasnt considered optimal. Except he did it to like 5k mmr.
1 Like
It’s exactly what I want to know: till which level does it work… If it only works till diamond it won’t change much, on that we can agree. But I’m kinda curious till which point it will work. Nothing wrong with testing new waters 
.
1 Like
Tanks are like 3 HP or something absurd off 1 shotting marines, so anything that shot quickly even if it tickles is fantastic support for tanks against marines. Marines also smash marauders, which is what bio players would love to make against tanks.
Also, since as a Protoss player you probably don’t know this, at vehicle weapons 2 tanks start 1 shotting marines. It’s a crazy power spike that lets you split units even further.
I really don’t think vikings are fast enough to be dedicated harass like, say teleporting BCs or speed banshees are.
Masters is easy to break with your offrace. For God’s sake, Pezz is a bit better than Playa but he has a 5k Terran offrace. To be fair, Pezz also players a harder style, but still.
It’ll fail somewhere in masters where people can follow build orders.
1 Like
Ugh ok you are the best … as always. I guess streamers should beware to not steal your builds. Maybe you are playing on a level below your MMR, meching is not very advisable to do but is easier to control than bio. Im a bio player for most, only vs Zerg can mech, and Mech does not have more complex control when we talk about ;Terran is harder; but because mech isnt efficient vs Protoss it is still hard.
Try doing all you have to do with bio but if u prove a point terran isnt so difficult, u arent choosing the more common part of what u have to do as terran to be the more difficult one. Up to you if you want to waste time learning a whole race but that certainly will give you more challenge.
I’ve already had one of the best T vs Zs in NA, in BW. I’m sure I could do the same, in SC 2, if I practiced splitting vs banelings and what not. That’s the funny thing to me. There’s actually nothing to prove, for me, and it’s incredibly obvious I’d be GM with Terran, if not better than my Toss, if I chose Terran to begin with in SC 2.
It baffles me how few people understand how much harder Terran is in BW, in all ways. It’s like being able to win a 50 mile marathon but everyone is like “ain’t no way you can run a 15 mile race.” It’s like the illogical nature of people, as advertised daily, is what kinda makes it “easy” to reach w/e level without even have watched the matchups before, let alone playing them.
I do believe mech with Terran and playing Protoss is very similar. At least with how I play Toss. Terran simply has far more viable units to incorporate, where as with Toss… you’re extremely pigeon holed. You actually have freedom with Terran, which unlocks far more flexibility and viable build potential.
There’s only 1 freaking way to semi play Toss. With Terran… it feels like there’s probably a lot of builds/styles where it’s splitting hair/impossible to determine what’s best/optimal.
At the end of the day, playing into this Terran too hard thing and giving it some plausibility just makes this process all the more sweeter. Creating suckers and then exposing them eventually 
So far, I feel like T vs Z is even easier than it was in BW. I know it’s a 180 for me here, but the more I play, the more I understand why it’s easier. In BW, you reach a level where you basically have to switch to mech every game, as you can’t stop extremely skilled players from eventually reaching ultras. And ultras just steamroll everything and travel at the speed of light.
It’s way easier to start a game off as mech than it is to start with bio and switch to mech. And you couldn’t start games out as mech in BW. It was horrible. SC 2 mech has waaaaaaay more tools to deal with Zerg than in BW, too. It’s such an awesome feel. Everything about Terran is way easier in SC 2. Strategically, it’s just so simple in comparison.
It’s also kinda nice to know Terran isn’t just mechanics and strategy can carry you a lot or else Scan would already be 6k MMR. So, that gives some hope, too.
You know you can Chrono Phoenixes, they’re faster, they fly, they cancel the lock on, and the micro battle is 100% easier on the phoenix’ side.
1 Like
I have a lot of experience with trying to use phoenix vs cyclones. It’s really tricky. A critical mass of cyclones is a real thing. A lot of phoenixes is always just a liability/extreme risk.
Like it’s imperative to snowball the early game with phoenix. Like you basically have to kill the first 2 cyclones for free or else you’re probably going to get cycloned…
I feel like you can do a timing attack with cyclones and stalkers and probably kill Terran. But, if Terran simply has a turret to prevent that, then you can make more cyclones than they can phoenixes, and you will reach a number that just instantly kills everything. There is a very sharp drop off in the power of phoenixes and the inverse with cyclones. Thus, you’re basically on a timer as Toss. It’s not a good feel.
1 Like
What? Shorter build time, Chrono, same cost. Idk, man. Seems like just another Playa whine.
3 Likes
You can make as many factories as you want. Mass stargates isn’t a build. For the same reason, it’s hard to even win with phoenixes in the early game vs vikings. If they go 2 starport reactored, there’s not much you can do.
Nearly everything beats mass phoenixes, where as nearly everything loses to mass cyclones. One carries huge risk, which deters you from even trying to amass phoenixes. The other just rewards you for making more.
Dude, there’s just zero sense of reality to you. Everything Terran has seems like it’s chiseled from diamonds.
Like seriously? Mass Cyclones beat everything? Come on, man. Give your brain a chance, please. You’re not a stupid guy.
1 Like
It’s really not that far fetched. You know what else used to beat everything? Queens. Mass queens. Only thing that could beat it straight up was disruptors. Yet, wasn’t even an “army unit.” Terrans have called the freaking tempest OP for years. A unit that counters jack in the game. A unit with the DPS of some probes. Less range than the cyclone. Less mobility. Less everything but HP.
So far, in my experience, from both sides… the cyclone beats everything except walking into a disruptor shot. It’s a pretty good unit. Feels bad to have not played Terran to begin with. If only someone told me that they were cool with giving a unit 15 range and more mobility than the opponents units, and far more DPS, I probably would have went with that race. Especially if they told me that they were going to make the tempest 5 supply, more in the past, and pretend it’s good. Now that’s some real bias.
Please don’t respond to my posts if you have severe brain damage. You are wasting your time. I won’t even read them.
I once tried to explain to him some of the basic mathematics behind how poker works. He was convinced he had a win-rate “higher than possible” and would not stop rambling about it. Poker is 99% chance and it is impossible to have good luck long term. The game is so random it takes around 3 YEARS of playing 40 hours a week for a skilled player to differentiate himself in winnings. He can’t be saved. The fact that Protoss boosted this guy to GM tells you all you need to know about the state of balance (Blizzard: nuke Protoss from orbit for Christ’s sake).
They’ve done articles on the theoretically highest win rate. It’s really not all that different from Starcraft, in a sense that there is an optimal way and a sub optimal way to play versus certain strategies/hands.
For instance, starting out in poker, I used a software that tracked your results per hand type; I was getting brutalized with AK. It’s a huge, huge advantage to simply understand what hands make you money, to what degree, and which hands lose you money.
If you play against baddies and you focus on the hands you know crush, and you, for instance, completely change how you play ace king, in doing a 180 in regards to overplaying it, then you can consistently make money and crush people who have ace king, while not losing any money when you have the hand. Stuff like that.
To suggest one can’t win long term, is to say there’s absolutely no way to play poker incorrectly. Obviously if there is an incorrect way to play there is a correct way to play, thus “skill” exists and if you exhibit more skill/knowledge than the guys you play vs, you win long term. It’s as simple as that. It has nothing to do with luck.
For instance, if one were to bet on me over a certain amount of hands or a random guy off the forums who hasn’t even really played poker before… you’d bet on me if you have a brain, because you realize there is some amount of knowledge/skill needed. The more you have, the more you win.
I don’t think poker is a good game. I don’t think it really is a game that one can win enough to care about. The thing is. Anyone can win at poker, just like anyone can win at SC 2 if they play the right opponents. Every time. I can have a 100% win rate with Toss for the rest of my life if I just play Plat players… But, in poker… you get to choose who you play vs. You can end up moving up stakes and playing against people who are better than you, thus you can quickly lose the money you spent a long time to make.
So, people can go broke without bad luck or being bad. Just playing above their skill. I think once you reach a certain level, it’s more about who you play against than simply being better than everyone. Aka, if you play against some rich fish business man who likes to play high stakes… then that’s probably where you’re going to make your money/living. That’s more lucrative than simply being a little better than the best and playing against them all day.
So, in short there is skill and you can “change the meta” in a similar sense, but… at the end of the day, making real money is probably far more about networking than being uber at the game. I know what bad luck looks like. I’ve seen how long it can last. But, I also understand getting into good situations over and over again, without luck, and knowing the results will having nothing to do with luck and everything to do with your ability to consistently get into winning situations and avoid danger.
A concept I like to think about. Just in general. It’s how much is a hand worth playing for? Like if you have 1 pair, on average, what’s it worth playing for? How committed should you be to it? Two pair? A set? Etc, etc.
Obviously it’s a vague, general thing, and it completely depends on the circumstances (how did you get into w/e situation). But, in general, I don’t think people really consider this enough. Just like starting hands have a similar value, you gotta place a similar value on the current hand you have and only commit an apt amount.
Anyways, this is a SC 2 forum I hear.
Ok maybe it will be a bit of disappointment to you but Mass Cyclone was used years before you started playing Terran to prove a point. It was the once in a while making a win build for pro players. inb4 Playa invented mass cyclone
It is the only way to play mech vs protoss but still not very efficient, you can have good advantage of thors when you mech then again I saw how thors fall to Carriers, you know everyone claims how interceptors die and that’s it, in a forum theory,. not in reality
I’m fully aware. There’s a reason I only make cyclones. It’s called having played vs it enough to understand how ridiculous it is. I also haven’t completely forgotten about the reactored cyclone era when everyone was using cycloen openers to inflate their MMR. Well, you were simply dumb or honorable, I guess, if you didn’t.
Yeah and it died off for many, many reasons. It is extremely fragile and if your opponent ever gets on top of your army it’s just over. Getting on top of bio is USUALLY a good thing for the Protoss, but bio has WAY more durability & options in that scenario than mass cyclone does. You can load into medivacs for example or stim and stutter step and with medivac healing to trade decently. If zealots get on top of cyclones the game is over. Furthermore cyclones don’t have the mobility of medivac+bio play, meaning there is no threat except a frontal cyclone push. So the Protoss is free to execute an extremely simple f2+a-click defense, maybe with some pre-splitting to get a surround. This also makes cyclones extremely weak to counter-attack play. The Protoss can just a-click some zealots and a planetary and the terran is somehow supposed to manage cyclone lock-ons in two locations.
This has been very well understood for years at this point.
1 Like