Switching to the reported hard race?!

General Discussion
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Here’s the thing. All of these guys act like they’ve never experienced such difficulty and imbalance in their lives, and they keep glorifying the good days of BW where Terran was so balanced and everything was rainbows. You know, the game they sucked at… It’s like, hello? So spoiled and insane.

They were terrible with the most successful race, historically. The race with all the “bonjwas,” but now they want you to believe that the game with zero Toss bonjways and the game where they’re many, many leagues above what they were in the prior game… that’s the game that is unfair to them… It’s like come on man. Enough. Jesus.

These guys have played thousands of game with Toss, at this point, yet… it doesn’t show. Yet, it’s so easy…

One day people need to realize that streamers, in particular, are not entertainers… they’re crazy people who instead of being looked after by a mental ward… are looked after by strangers on twitch. Instead of trying to be like hey… stop being stupid… we reward them and try to encourage them to be a little crazier.

Always exceptions, even if they’re very good at hiding…

If I mained Terran in SC 2, you wouldn’t see me complaining about nothing. Nothing. Okay, I might say… could we make shield batteries a little different, just cause I’m tired of playing against 50 APM players with 10k MMR. Besides that… nothing.

You couldn’t beat ultras in BW. You couldn’t defend vs arbiters. T vs T and T vs P vs anyone decent lasted about an hour. This is like a dream come true if you played Terran in BW. What is there to stress or complain about? This is all amazing. This is like you sucked at Terran in BW, you joined the balance team, and you did everything in your power to make yourself good on ladder…

I almost wonder if Nathanias was like, hey guys… since everyone is an idiot… can we just make the cyclone as broken as possible so I can win ladder games, but it won’t affect balance cause it takes everyone 15 years to even realize that a broken unit is even playable? I dunno. Seems plausible to me.

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Terran:
Foreigners that play this race are extinct until 2017, 2016 maybe(???) unless your name is Special. But, even if your name is Special you haven’t won a single premier tournament.
Has won the least prize money out of the other races.
Has had numerous players retire early due to wrist issues.
Has had players switch from Terran and perform remarkably better in their career.

Playa: Don’t you guys know how broken mass cyclones are verse Protoss?

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Here’s the thing. Special was LITERALLY the only good non Korean Terran to switch to Terran in SC 2. I would be the second best NA Terran to switch, thus… you’d expect me to be the second best Terran. There’s no Terran talent. There’s only Terran whiners who want you to believe they’re being held back by some invisible force, when… they’re being LOFTED by the balance team and design of SC 2.

If a person can’t figure out cyclones are broken vs Toss after a couple minutes of using a unit tester, it’s time to quit every game. Don’t even browse the internet, because that’s beyond your ability, too. Just go live in the wilderness or something. Internet ain’t for you.

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It would look something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoPIra4iEaI&t=197s

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I feel like seeing that mass cyclones + ravens in T vs T should be very similar to seeing my 1 gateway, stargate expand in P vs P, on the low ground. It should be blatantly obvious that… that’s the best way to play it and, really, probably the only way.

Who came up with that style? I don’t really see any debate, being Terran or not, that… there’s no other way to play it. One would say, but Playa, if that’s the case… why do you never encounter it on ladder? You could say the same thing about the P vs P one. Only those at the top of the ladder “get it.”

I just played a guy and did the cyclone + raven thing. Terran isn’t even fun anymore. Okay, maybe T vs Z hasn’t been sullied, but the other matchups? It’s literally just abusing cyclones. Hey guys… I’ma make cyclones and beat you cause you ain’t got cyclones yourself or not as many. Awesome. Really hard.

It’s honestly kinda depressing that it seems to boil down to that.

Clearly, you can go cyclone raven, get complete map control, take every expansion and then make w/e your little heart desires and win via superior economy. Took a game of doing it to get it… That should be good enough for GM on NA, right? Simply the understanding that the cyclone needs to be removed from the game or severely nerfed.

If I do get GM, though, let’s pretend I’m awesome and it was an impossible feat, given what every Terran player has echoed for the past 10+ years. Not possible.

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Today is the day of finally playing ranked (finally unlocked) with Terran on my new account “SleepyBear”. Profile to eventually show up: h ttps://starcraft2.com/en-us/en/profile/1/1/12213433 so people of the world can gauge the degree of Terran difficulty in real time.

So far, I’m 8-0, 4k MMR. 3-0 vs Terran and Zerg, 2-0 vs Toss. Past couple days, I think I’ve only lost 2 games and they were both carbon copy 2 minutes losses to Terran; I went 2 reapers, 2 hellions; opponent went 3 reapers and 3-4 hellions or something. Something along those lines.

Guy attacks up my natural ramp, has more stuff and wins. Grats. I’m going to go back to opening with at least 1 mine. Same thing happens every game, may as well just kill the units for free with some mines, I guess, and proceed on in life in peace and harmony… with cyclones… which enables the peace and harmony.

Truth be told, I’m already really bored with Terran. Nothing is challenging atm. I’m just disappointed by the lack of depth and the complete lack of needing to know anything about anything outside of common sense stuff.

My hope is that it takes me some time to get GM, so… I can feel better about the state of the game, honestly, and… to not have Terrans truly exposed for being insane/immature. I’d like to think humanity is a little better than it has come off as. I don’t know if it would help anyone sleep better or not, but at least would help be awake better…

It’s just a game, so they said. Here’s just a game, which was my last one: h ttps://drop.sc/replay/19682611 T vs Z vs a former WoL GM with 38k career games. Let’s please put respect on the opponent’s abilities, whether a fall from grace or not.

Longer game, where I show off my true mech prowess… and get the WP from a very astute opponent. Former GM, after all. I guess it’s not a game of attrition when you end up with 7k/6k, but… those are the games I’m very familiar and comfortable with as Terran. My forte, so to speak.

This SC 2 thing provides an interesting dynamic, though. I didn’t sacrifice any SCVs, but clearly that’s something I need to do in the future. The ability to free up 91 supply for more army… and not have it be stupid… Terran is just so much more suited for beating Zerg at the pro level than Toss that… it’s probably crazy to even contemplate playing Toss if you could play Terran at the pro level.

Neways, words were said. Oh, it’s only been a little over a week of playing Terran, but… I honestly thought I might have to take a break due to a hand injury already. This is why we don’t assume things, though; we’ve all heard of feats of strength… such as me totally doing a set of 110 pushups yesterday, and could easily done 20 more.

Well, meet the opposite. Examples of failure and being weak. I totally hurt my hand trying to open a jar of tomato sauce yesterday. One day, I hope to be known as “this guy opens jars.” That would be the greatest feat and the biggest flex. In other words, opening jars appears to be 1000000x harder than playing Terran. Yikes. I don’t know if that says more for the ease of Terran or the impossibility of opening jars, to be fair. :man_shrugging:

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Evil tongues said to the Goba Information Center that also the terrans that complained about joints were simply victims of jars with tomato paste.
It’s like the BatZ BS of having injured his finger.
His finger did not stop the infamous-troll (BatZ) to inundate this forum with his anti-Protoss drivel.
Please Playa: next time that you will have a battle with tomato-jars make a request to Goba in order to have at your disposal a couple of Dark-Templars which will eviscerate the jars in no time.
Your hands are too valuable furthering the noble cause of Aiur.

En Taro Adun!

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I’ve never heard of a “jar opener,” outside of like a hand grip thing. But, that is what I’ll be looking into now, as thankfully it appears to exist, and granted I was contemplating whether it was possible to break your hand opening a jar.

I ran the jar through hot water for a long time, cause science. I then used my right hand. Entry denied. So, I then used my left hand, and apparently 500 muscles that had never been used in a feat of strength way were now asked to lift an elephant, and they all obviously died.

Failure to prepare is preparing to fail. Gotta be ready for anything and everything boys. Lesson learned.

I actually hurt this hand, already, so bad, from working that simply moving fingers, which is unavoidable, obviously, would cause nerve pain that would last a day. This lasted for a year… Couldn’t even type a sentence without massive pain.

“Painful fact.” Years ago, there was a tournament where 2 NA people qualified and were sent to Maldives to play for w/e. You know, tropical island/paradise. All I had to do was show up and beat some guy named SirRobin to be one of the 2 (other guy was JonSnow). But, due to my hand, I couldn’t partake (I had just hurt it).

Anyways, this time around, around the pinky/knuckle… everything hurt, so I did have to take a break yesterday. Luckily, I’m back… or else everyone would be thinking I made up some fanciful excuse to dodge my Terran obligations to the universe. Streamer, I am not. Give me from Terran birth to GM or give me death, and no made up excuses.

I appreciate you valuing my hand and looking out for my inability to open jars. :mechanical_arm:

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what i like about the thread. that you regularly talk about specific match up. And what you are currently trying to play.
It would also be interesting if you could include what the weaknesses and strengths of your current build are.

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Thanks, Hallo. I’ll make sure to keep tabs of what I lose to going forward and comment on. If I didn’t mention, I’m playing on NA now. I had been playing unranked on EU. I think I won something like 10 games in a row, around there, to 4500+ players.

So, I haven’t really faced many hurdles as of recently, to where I could clearly pinpoint “that’s a weakness that’s being exploited or that’s tough to deal with.” So far, what I feel I need a better approach versus, where some adjustments might be needed/ideal, would be vs swarm host play and playing vs fast medivac builds.

I feel like playing vs fast medivacs puts me in an awkward spot where I’m having to hope they drop in a certain location, and then I also assume it’s like a 1 base thing, so I can end up taking my expansion too late, when it’s clearly not a 1 base build, and thus I have catch up to do. Outside of that, been pretty smooth sailing lately.

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If you want challenge, how about you try to overtake my Protoss MMR? I only started playing the race recently myself, and I’m currently sitting on 4734 MMR at a 67% winrate from 55 games. There seems to be no stopping my Protoss really, I preddict I’ll go over 5050 MMR which is the threshold to GM once ladder stabilizes again. Just today beat a 5220 MMR Terran. Besides, this should be an easy win for you since your Protoss MMR is above my Terran MMR.

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Meh nothing to do witch race 5050 can play bad so it not measure

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Playa already had years of experience with playing the harder game as Terran… So we’ve been told. Guess it’s more of people struggling to compete with a ballpoint mouse and dialup internet on potato PCs…

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Let’s be real, though. I want credit for every Terran’s off race Toss. If it weren’t for me, they’d be dreaming of breaking into Diamond league.

Honest observation, though. Before my style became a thing outside of me… every Terran that tried to off race Toss would give up sooner than later, because they’d have like 20% vs Zerg… But now that everyone knows the only way to actually play vs Zerg… they’re able to waltz into having a good P vs Z instead of, what would happen in the past, losing every game.

As they say, timing is everything or mostly everything. So far, I’m finding T vs Z easy, and if you don’t mess up micro vs Toss, seems you’re supposed to win every game vs them, too. I feel like it’s easy to force Toss into making shield batteries early, but if you take a quick third and macro well… I feel that alone should already rule out their chances of winning.

Not losing T vs P, so far, has seemed to come down to, besides the aforementioned, simply realizing when it’s time to make a tank or two for defense. If army values are fairly close, or an all-in is coming, that seems to always keep things in your favor.

T vs T feels like it’s the most complicated Terran matchup by far. Being out of position is far more punishing. And the whole bio and mech thing kinda turns T vs T into feeling like you’re playing vs two races. Two matchups in one kinda thing. And the early game is just kinda random stupidity. At least, that’s how I’m going to whine to describe it.

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If you want to be a hipster open marauders with slow in TvT. I wonder how your TvPs go without eng blocking since that is the step too far for me. I would rather play with rapid fire…

XD I used 4 gate glave adepts into stalker disruptor most PvZs.

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I genuinely believe BW is easier than SC2 soley from watching Artosis. The guy has horrible mechanics but can make S rank with the supposed hardest race? There’s a reason Artosis can’t break masters in SC2.

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Well, last game I played, the guy expanded before I could, so I just made a bunker. There’s no real way for Toss to get ahead economically, it seems. That game went swimmingly. Exceedingly easy, I’d say. Early cyclones are just too good at bullying. They’re value machines. They’re literal terrorists. So, they’re already contained, right… and then you have banshees messing with them, and they’re like “bro… but I’m already contained. I’m literally already defending my mineral lines, why are you harassing them?”

And you’re just like… imagine how it’s going to be when you think about spreading out? All game son. Cower in fear. You know what, just go ahead and admit defeat. Save us both some time. It’s inevitable. They know. I know. And now you know.

Drawing strats from a hat, and the hat wants credit for your P vs Z, granted you somehow win games. Reminds me of this Romanian guy or w/e, Light, who doesn’t play anymore. He would always go proxy gate adept into disruptors. He was such a caveman type player. One of the best at all-ining on ladder, though, if not the best.

That is the craziest take yet. I thoroughly enjoyed that one, though. That’s top notch spicy. Keeping life interesting. I can’t watch any non Koreans play Terran because none of them scan. They all play blind. They’re all just really stupid with how they play, IMO.

The only one I actually respect playing against and I’m like, “he knows what’s up,” is nyoken. Anyone else… and it’s like oh god… not today, not any day.

Terran in BW is so hard that only Special would be GM level. The Avilos and everyone else… they weren’t even “Masters league” man. Strategically… it’s impossible. You truly need to be a lot smarter than everyone you play against. Mechanically? Listen… you can only hotkey 12 units in a control group. Try playing late game T vs Z when you got a million marines, tanks, vessels, etc… It’s impossible.

To simply figure out how to maneuver your units in a manner that will allow you to win a game is harder than anything Terran in SC 2, by a lot. You can lose so many games, simply because your “effective supply” being what you can actually hotkey/manage… is too small.

Every Terran matchup is basically a chess match, and if you’re playing at the same level as your opponent… you lose.

Artosis has played a million games with Terran. He’s made his life Terran in BW… yet… his MMR isn’t that high. I haven’t played remastered since they came up with these new ranks… but my Terran was rated higher than his.

Toss is so easy in BW, that I got third on the server with Toss. Nearly 2500 MMR. One of the highest ratings for any non Korean. And I was only playing Toss because you couldn’t race pick anymore. I didn’t even play P vs Z or P vs P. I ended up creating novel strats vs Zerg and Toss… and they worked as well as anything else in the game, apparently.

You can literally pick up Toss and beat pro gamers your first game. That’s what you’re dealing with when you play Terran against Toss. The degree of difficulty, the discrepancy, is insane. I totally get their whine. I’ve never felt amazing after a P vs T win. It was just to be expected.

Think about this. I quit to play poker. I literally came back from a year of not playing a single game, and I was playing vs Idra as my first game in a year… and he was the best non Korean in the world and had been on a pro team in Korea for over a year. I won a long macro game vs him in my first game back, basically.

I even flew an arbiter in his base to recall… but I had forgotten to research recall, if I believe. So when I did actually recall it was like a million seconds later and he knew it was coming. You can make so many mistakes, it’s crazy. This stuff shouldn’t be possible.

There is a huge difference between Artosis and actual pro gamer Terrans. His MMR isn’t high, relative wise. Plus, he’s having Scan coach him, and scan is one of the best Terrans in the world. Terran in BW is no joke.

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I played every style of PvZ I knew. I stuck with the one I enjoyed most. I also got many WPs from cannon rushers… Guessing they’re too used to coping bm from our dear Playa.

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You’re really going to have to sell me on S rank being low to convince me BW is hard. You’re really going to have to sell me on this one.

I’ve played Scan twice on SC2 ladder, we’re 1-1 I believe. He seemed like a really nice guy when I was talking to him.

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Korean pro gamers are around 3k MMR. Artosis is perpetually around 2k. It wasn’t until he got coaching from Scan every day that I even saw him at like 2100. There is an astronomical gap between non Korean Terrans and Koreans.

Clearly ranks have been made to make people feel good about themselves and have them be attainable for non Koreans, too.

Players like Avilo can’t get 2k MMR in remastered. Few can… yet that’s still not even remotely close to pro level.

It’s kinda baffling to me how all these years later, there can be such a lack of understanding at just how much of a gap there is between decent Koreans and even the best non Koreans (they don’t want “you” to know, because it would make you seem stupid for worshiping them). For years, a non Korean didn’t even win a single game vs a pro player, even on ladder… If a non Korean simply won a game on ladder… it was a once in a life time event to never be lived down kinda thing.

There’s so many levels in BW. And most people believe Terran is the hardest. If you’re trying to be pro or play at the highest level, even in the non Korean scene, then obviously… it’s harder than SC 2. I mean, you don’t end up with no MBS and limited units in a control group and end up with “easier Terran.” There’s no Terran unit, like the cyclone, for instance… that’s just manhandling everything.

There’s no max and f2 a move. A death by a thousand moves/decisions is always far harder than anything in SC 2. It’s just wild to even have the conversation, honestly.

All one has to do is play Terran in BW for a week or w/e short period and realize they need to send the SC 2 design team a thank you card and probably name their first born child after one of them.