OR they will just stare at a building depo and do nothing because that bug is still there and bliz just ignores reports on it for years. It seems to manifest less in a late game (it is basically guaranteed on your first depo, but gradually goes away closer to mission end), but midgame there is always a random chance.
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I am being defensive, because all you do the entire post is bash on my skill in order to make the point that you are right and i am wrong. Pretty much every post of you has some sort of “Swann is fine, L2P” in it.
So don’t be surprised when people get defensive, when you belittle them in your posts. Cause that’s on you.
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Sorry i must have skipped that part in my initial read…
I don’t want to turn Swann into a speed-runner. I just think he deserves some early game buffs and his supply needs could use some love. As you say, the supply drops wouldn’t change him into a speed runner.
Though i think you are underestimating orbital supply drops. It would at least save him few hundred minerals early game… i think that would be great for Swann. Remember the vespene drone mastery? It saves swann 760 minerals early on and its quite impactful. Depot drops aren’t quite as impactful as cheaper vespene drones, as depot drops are stretched over a longer period of time, but it’s effects are similar.
In any case, variations on this feature can make it more or less impactful.
E.g. orbital supply drops could be available without upgrade on Swanns basic CCs. Or it could require a quick, cheap upgrade. Or a longer, more expensive one. Or the energy required for supply drops could be 75 or 100 instead of 50.
I like the no-upgrade version best, with energy required at 75 (maybe even 100). Since the CC starts with 50 energy, it should have the first drop available in time, when Swann needs a second depot.
Unsurprised, and you are encourageable.
There is a difference in “bashing your skill” versus “reading the facts”.
Being defensive is when people point out flaws for you to improve on, only to see that you are offended by how unrecognized and unparalleled your skills are.
Have you tried the suggested routes? Did you go check out some Swann play? If you did, then you’d seen Supply Block isn’t an issue.
Take a look at it from a very simple perspective: If many others have no issues as Swann and supply, then why do you?
- Everyone else is wrong and are cheating whenever they play Swann. Or…
- You have discovered something innovative because your gameplay is minutes ahead of everyone else.
Both are possible but the likelihood of 2) based on your description seems (at least to me) impossible. Then again, if I’m wrong and you are using an excellent build order superior then please share.
TLDR; Otherwise, maybe it isn’t that I’m bashing your skills. Maybe it is just that objectively speaking, this suggestion has no real merit. And the solution isn’t “make this change” but rather (as you put it) “learn to play”. Your forever advocacy (perseverance) is encourageable. However, persistence isn’t the same as truth.
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Have you tried the suggestions in the guides? If so, then please post a video to highlight the problem you’re seeing.
Have you done what you suggest yourself? Cause supply blocks happen, no matter how good you are, sir.
I have seen supply blocks happen to Maru and Serral and other real pro players, and supply depot drops is being used in pro games as well. It’s rare, but it does happens.
Have you checked the likes on the first post or the responses from other poster? There are people who feel the same… but you just don’t see.
You sir are just not a pleasant discussion partner… and here are some examples:
You have never seen me play, yet the very first thing you post is assuming that i lack skill and experience.
L2P stuff as usual. Annoying.
Many including myself feel Swann lacks early game pushing power. You may have a different opinion… that is fine… but suggesting other opinions are only due to lacking experience is arrogant and annoying.
Almost insulting.
Again… skill bashing. And I think you are wrong.
Honestly i can’t belief that you stand there in broad daylight and claim you don’t bash player skill, while doing exactly that in almost all of your posts.
Oh you mean, it’s almost like a real Terran player?
Seriously, this is the problem that heroes like Zeratul and Tychus have exasperated. You have these players playing on Brutal that think just because some Commanders are automated easy mode that all of them have to be.
I like playing Swann specifically because I like having to actually macro while I’m playing. Heroes where all of that is automated get boring much faster.
Swann’s not the only Commander that still needs to do this either btw. Vorazun, Kerrigan, Karax, Alarak, Stukov and Fenix don’t have any special supply mechanics either. (except Vorazun but that costs a lot of energy that could be used for Vortex and Shadow Guard)
People just whine about Swann because they’re bad at him. He doesn’t need any sort of buff whatsoever.
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You’re right, I’m wrong. If you pick and choose my post then cast it in that light…
It still doesn’t change Swann’s gameplay. Still doesn’t change that you get supply blocked while others don’t.
You justify your topic by what? Comparing yourself with Maru and Serral. How audacious and arrogant. Are you serious? Out of 10s of thousands of games they play, in a few competitive matches they end up supply blocked is your reason? And don’t mistake a few likes for anything. Get your head out of that false-popularity jar lol.
Just wow.
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Do you really think orbital supply depots would make Swann an automated easy mode commander?
No more supply depots to build?
No more tank drop micro required?
No more science vessel micro?
I don’t like automated stuff either… but orbital depot drops is not the same as automatic 100 or 200 supply like Artanis or Nova has. It’s actually quite the exact opposite… it requires decision and micro.
I agree. But i maintain, depot drops would not hurt Swanns gameplay at all, since that is something else to consider and micro.
Again skill bashing heroes.
Maybe you are just so bad, you don’t even get to play Swann at a sufficiently high level to even see the supply problems he has when you constantly produce out of multiple factories and starports.
See how annoying that kind of talking is? It accomplishes nothing constructive.
Maybe I just understand how to use his rapid construction perk, which no Swann I ever am allied with ever uses.
Maybe I understand that it’s that same perk that allows him to rapidly build depots. Something other Terran commanders can’t do.
Maybe I understand how to properly macro because I play ladder and macroing in Co Op is simple in comparison.
Maybe I actually like having to experience macro as part of my Co Op experience and don’t want it watered down for a Commander that already has plenty of powerful perks.
Yea it’s probably one of those. Maybe a few of them. Maybe all of them.
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Do you feel like i misrepresented what you said? How, and what exactly?
Can you remind me where i compare myself with them? Because it seems like you pulled that out your behind.
I said they experience supply blocks too… i did not say anything about their skill in relation to mine.
If you think it really takes 10000 or even 1000 games before Maru or Serral have a significant supply block in a game, you’re delusional.
I doubt i have even seen 10000 SC2 pro games in my entire life… yet i have seen plenty of supply blocks and depot drops. I would say in a serious match even Serral and Maru gets supply blocked maybe once every 10 or 20 games.
Can you drop it dude?
To put into context. Pro gamers practice 10s of thousands of games. The ones you see are just the tiny corner of games they play, in a competitive setting is all. Even in those hundreds of matches, they barely get supply blocked.
Not to mention the context of their supply block. They are competitively playing against another pro player. You are playing against a more-designed, with known timing computer ai. So there is little comparison for the “need to deal with supply block”.
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Just to put things correct here:
Vorazun has Void Pylons.
Karax has instant pylon warpins.
Fenix has a mastery removing supply need for early game.
Besides that:
Kerrigan and Alarak don’t need much supply early on, since they have a hero unit that can cover the entire early game.
And finally Stukov has infesteds that cost no supply and great calldowns that can cover the early game easily.
Swann on the other hand has only 1 of his calldowns available early game. Swann is much more dependent on his army supply than any of the other commanders you mentioned, especially early game.
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Ok, but is there any reason to assume they get less supply blocked in their training games? You know they don’t play bronze league when they train, they play GM most of the time.
Yeah you have a point there.
But then again, the likes of Maru and Serral are really good and try really hard to not get supply blocked. But sh!t happens. In my opinion, the same is to some extent true for coop as well. You can train to macro well, but when microing your hercules and science vessels, its easy to forget your macro for 20s.
I am just beeing honest here… i really think supply depot drops would be a real helpful change for Swann. Not reducing his complexity, helping early game ramp up, reducing supply block times for a little extra micro, while not being OP.
You still need to build most of your depots with SCVs. I haven’t heard any real good counter argument so far, yet so many are so against it like it’s going to totally change Swann to something like Zeratul.
I think what they’ve been trying to tell you before your exchange got a little bit too heated, is that Swann can still be played without having to be supply blocked frequently, but it does require some skill. I don’t think they’re outright trying to shut your idea down, you’re right, it doesn’t hurt, but until the devs decide that Swann’s early game power needs to be bumped up, it also wouldn’t hurt to try out the build orders and tips that we gave you.
Sorry for the internet being a bit too hostile, it is after all, humanity’s greatest experiment.
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If they did put in, “cool beans”. However, the point I guess that was missed was I wouldn’t be surprised if it never got implemented because the overall sentiment IS it’s not needed
Case in points are I often run out of minerals and gas for many COs (“resource blocked”). That’s not going to be a case for me to make bold suggestions for some resource infusions.
I like spamming Karax’ Orbital Strikes a lot, but I run out of energy fairly quickly. I acknowledge the solution there would be to also utilize his units and cannons in tandem
I typically need 15 to 18 minutes, MINIMUM, to fin all 3 of of Zeratul’s Artifacts. I know about the trick to cast waypoints to narrow it down, but it’s still tedious. That said, I’ve seen Zeratul players find all 3 far quicker.
In all cases above, I would appreciate buffs, but I’ve seen typical players work around such limitations just fine, so i acknowledge it falls into the “would be nice, but truly isn’t needed” category
The overall point is true, but I wanted to point out:
–Karax’ Pylons have 0 bt.
Helps tremendously 
I had to relevel up Karax, from scratch, with a new account, and it was painful not having this
–Fenix does have a Mastery to give him starting supply
Each pt gives him +2 supply. Alas, that’s contrasted that with Chrono Boost boost (+1% per pt, from a base of 22.5% faster). I tried a few games with max supply it offered, and it was nice. However, it was overkill since I needed to make pylons anyways, and the extra boost in Chrono Boost gets Probes in quicker, not to mention other stuff.
I am often supply blocked with Stukov. He’s Zerg, but his town hall uses charges, which is slower than Larvae.
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Haha, perfectly put. Guess we’ll be seeing MULES and Vespene Drones alike mechanism to be implemented for all commanders.
Just on a clarification note separately. The reason I find this particular concept ridiculous is because there is an objective difference in an actual supply block by design versus by human operation (unlearned skill).
Swann exemplifies this the most. Not pulling 2SCVs by 14/15 supply to build the supply depot will always result in 15/15 block on the 16th SCV production. So the “learn to play” portion is for players to realize this and thus pull 2SCVs for the first supply depot, allowing a smooth and continuous worker production.
This can also be seen in Alarak. If the player doesn’t cast Chrono onto an ally’s structure and allow self-Chrono-boosted Probe production, the 14 Pylon built will never complete before the 15th Probe comes out. As a result, again, the 16th will be supply blocked briefly. Some get around this by delaying Probe production initially in favour of 1st Pylon first. Others, simply let it happen or cast Chrono on ally.
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Give my boy Swann a Planetary Fortress. Another little tool to use in his line of defenses. <3
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I think one of blizzards mindset for him is that he is also a defensive Commander, thus he has some awesome turrets that don’t take supply. When you put it that way, it’s almost like one of his units don’t need supply, thus no need to give him extra supply options.
Of course, most newer maps emphasise offensive pushes as opposed to crawling forward with defensive pushes.
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I am not against the idea… but it seems outside of defensive maps like temple of the past, PFs would not be of much use.
But sure, why not?
Would be a nice way to repel those pesky hunter-lings on DoN 
Actually i would not mind having that option for all terran commanders… Swann would still be the only one whos PFs would have additional range, armor, auto repair and increased attack speed from e-bay upgrades… and Swanns PFs would also get +60% HP from mastery.
That could become borderline OP when you start to block base entrances on DoN with them 
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